AA, UA and DL in China

[WorldTraveler]

well, yes, Kev.

there are dozens, no hundreds of posts on THIS SITE, where people have tried to argue that they are more respected because of their score relative to someone else's.

would you like me to start posting a few?

you walk around with eyes wide open... surely you have seen them.


.....

I would be a whole lot less interested in trying to prove myself right if others didn't try so hard to prove me wrong, including dragging four year old posts from another website in order to try and confirm their point - only in fact to find that what I said was as accurate four years ago as it is today.

all of this talk about how great the board could be SHOULD start with those who are so unwilling to recognize that someone else really might know more about the industry than they do and they just might have gotten it right.

when they work as hard to try to prove someone else wrong and then end up doing it to themselves, you don't have to wonder for long why this board is such a hot mess of discontent

the topic is not about me but it says volumes when that is where the discussion turns because I have pointed out things that others don't want to hear - and then it goes downhill from there.

 

[Kev3188]

Well, there you go proving me right...

It's always someone else, isn't it?

 

[ChockJockey]

I would be a whole lot less interested in trying to prove myself right if others didn't try so hard to prove me wrong, including dragging four year old posts from another website in order to try and confirm their point - only in fact to find that what I said was as accurate four years ago as it is today.

all of this talk about how great the board could be SHOULD start with those who are so unwilling to recognize that someone else really might know more about the industry than they do and they just might have gotten it right.

when they work as hard to try to prove someone else wrong and then end up doing it to themselves, you don't have to wonder for long why this board is such a hot mess of discontent

the topic is not about me but it says volumes when that is where the discussion turns because I have pointed out things that others don't want to hear - and then it goes downhill from there.

 
Or perhaps you relish considering yourself the shining voice of reason and rightness among a den of lowly, unbelieving dissenters, and we're only just enabling you.

 

[Kev3188]

Also plausible...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Well, there you go proving me right...

It's always someone else, isn't it?

I don't really care who it is or who started it.

the simple fact is that AA has lost enormous amounts of money flying the Pacific, they have yet to figure out how to fix it or act on a plan that is reducing their losses, and bringing JL into the discussion doesn't change how badly AA has done and is doing.

other than your clear inability to disconnect your negativity to me from my opposition to the labor movement, can you tell us why you are unable to accept the factual evidence that has been presented?

 

[700UW]

http://crankyflier.com/2013/10/17/delta-turns-away-from-tokyo-in-favor-of-seattle/

 

[robbedagain]

so essentially DL Tokyo hub is NOT as PROFITABLE AS SOMEONE CLAIMS it is... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

the only publicly available comment about the profitability of DL's NRT hub came a year ago when DL said that NRT was its MOST profitable hub on its system.

IN the same period, DL's public filings with the DOT said that its Pacific NETWORK had a 25% positive profit margin.

the two are not the same but given that DL is rapidly expanding outside of Japan, if DL can pull off MORE THAN a 25% profit margin on new flying and support a NRT hub which is doing far worse, DL is doing pretty well.

If DL's NRT hub reflects the Pacific as a whole, then a 25% profit margin is very possible.

but hey, it's only a filing which DL made with government authorities.

ps. when you can find in the article where cranky says that DL was losing its shirt operating thru NRT, we can debate it.

we can also talk about why what he said is accurate regarding the economics of a SEA vs. a NRT hub as well as the necessity to serve a larger share of the market via a US hub than can be done via NRT.

wanna talk about that stuff that he talks about it in the article or make up your own stuff which is neither supported nor in the article?

btw, all of the same reasons why NRT is not as good of a hub for DL also apply to JL as well.

swirl that thought around in your head for a little while.

 

[Kev3188]

the only publicly available comment about the profitability of DL's NRT hub came a year ago when DL said that NRT was its MOST profitable hub on its system.

Actually, they noted it was the most profitable for /that quarter./

 

[eolesen]

there are dozens, no hundreds of posts on THIS SITE, where people have tried to argue that they are more respected because of their score relative to someone else's.
[snip]
the topic is not about me but it says volumes when that is where the discussion turns because I have pointed out things that others don't want to hear - and then it goes downhill from there.

Oh, please, do share those hundreds of posts...

Apparently, you didn't read what I and others were saying. Clearly, your the reputation score matters to you, because you were spending the time needed to sign into those fake accounts daily just to engage in self-congratulation...

Where has anyone said your opinions were less valid because of your score? All it does is reflect how other people perceive you. It's not the root of what your opinions are -- it's how you present them...

I don't mind reading your opinions. I'd just like to see fewer of them.

Today, June 27th, you made 50 posts.

Fifty.

You might want to think about *that* number.

Fifty.

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, E, the reputation score doesn't matter to me.

You probably will need a few cups of coffee to figure it out, but your little campaign to out Spectator and only him served to accomplish one and only one thing and that is for me to redouble my efforts to dominate the board with my message and do everything I can to prove my points, which I have indeed accomplished doing.

Now, hasn't your little campaign worked well?

how many times have you had to read about AA and Asia, all because you tried to run someone out of town who had an opinion counter to your own.

Did you really think you would win?

did you really think I was going to just roll over?

this little AA merger is just getting warmed up, AA is nowhere close to fixing its disastrous Asian operation, and the fall of the Wright Amendment is just a few months ago?

how about you and your little nAAtive mgmt. cheerleading squad have a little pow wow over the weekend and decide to bury the hatchet?

I've got a reputation of being your biggest irritant - and your responses clearly indicate I am succeeding wildly.

I have no reason to stop other than for you to finally admit that perhaps someone else really is right, there were very valid reasons why AA finally ended up in BK as I promised, and why nAAtive mgmt. was swept out of town along with their clearly failing strategies in Asia.

I can harp on these themes until the cows come off - and given that we are in the middle of summer in the US, it will be a while before they head to the barns for the summer.

give it a rest and maybe I will do the same.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Actually, they noted it was the most profitable for /that quarter./

that's right. and I commend you for recognizing what was said and not said.

As I have previously noted, I appreciate debating you because you stick to the facts.

Can you also tell us the profit margin for any other carrier in the Pacific in the same quarter?

oh wait, I can.

In the 2nd quarter of 2014, DL's operating profit margin on the Pacific was 12.5%; for the 3rd quarter it was 25% and for the entire year in was 16%.

for the year, UA also made money flying the Pacific but at a 2.5% margin.

AA and HA both lost money flying the Pacific for the year.

UA made money flying the Pacific in all but the 1st quarter.

DL made money flying the Pacific in EVERY quarter - the only US carrier to do so.

AA made money flying the Pacific in NO quarters. AA's profit margins were roughly the negative of DL's positive margins - as good as MINUS 12% and as low as MINUS 25%.

And the question remains how DL could have posted the highest margin among all US carriers and yet have run a hub at NRT which had the highest profitability of all DL hubs for one quarter and yet lost money overall during the year.

You guys can huddle among yourselves and try to come up with an answer as to how that is mathematically possible but I will tell you right now that DL is restructuring its Pacific network from a position of strength and profitability that exceeds the industry.

the notion that DL is failing at NRT or that NRT is not a profitable operation that has to be shrunk because it is not delivering solid financial results is quite simply unsupported by any facts.

it's all public data thanks to the DOT.


DL is restructuring its Pacific network because it sees the strategic value of flying from the US nonstop to Asia to a greater degree than being reliant solely on Asia.

I am strongly betting that the new 333s will allow DL to pull more of the 747s out of NRT and replace them with 333s which are smaller but have very similarly good CASMs and the new 333s can fly all of PMNW's original NRT network - but probably not JFK and ATL, at least on a year round basis.

It is no surprise that Richard Anderson is pushing for the 330neo so much in part because it is the right price to fly all of the existing NRT and SEA routes across the Pacific at costs that will likely be below the 787, 350, and 777NG.

It was with DL's 777s after the merger that DL expanded DTW to serve more destinations in Asia than NW had ever served outside of Japan at one time.

TO their credit, AA recognizes the same trend to fly nonstop to Asia despite their alliance with JAL but AA is restructuring their own network away from Japan at the same time they are losing significant amounts of money flying to Asia.

They also are trying to build DFW as an alternative gateway while getting average fares from LAX and ORD that are well below UA with whom AA competes on every route and also against DL with whom AA competes on LAX-NRT.


AA is restructuring and building its Pacific network from a position of weakness and loss; DL is restructuring from a position of profitability; UA is slowly growing but doing it from a profitability which reflects where the overall company is.

Understanding not only the basic facts of what is going on in the Pacific as well as the implications of those results on AA's strategies will go a long ways toward making rational and accurate conclusions.

 

[700UW]

You probably will need a few cups of coffee to figure it out, but your little campaign to out Spectator and only him served to accomplish one and only one thing and that is for me to redouble my efforts to dominate the board with my message and do everything I can to prove my points, which I have indeed accomplished doing.

Delusions of Grandeur Much?
 
You really need some help.
 

 

[commavia]

Delusions of Grandeur Much?
 
You really need some help.

 
Well remember ... this is the same world-class airline industry expert analysis that has been informing the world for the last decade about AA's financial performance - on internet discussion forums.
 
This level of detachment from reality is certainly scary, and honestly quite sad ...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

50 posts? I'll bet most of those were 100 words plus. I usually get through the first sentence at best.

If most here would stop reading his posts when reaching first "DL" they would probably end up with much more free time to read more interesting material.