Aa's Small Jet Division

[AirwAr]

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/storie...lots.cb559.html

Apparently the APA is researching the feasibility of allowing AA to operate a small jet division, 70 - 100 seaters, using APA pilots at reduced compensation.

In the past, AA would have jumped at the chance, but this article kind of makes it sound that management may be cool to the idea.

Is it possible that management would decline the offer, instead, opting to have Tri-States fly these jets? Would APA's contract allow codesharing in this situation?

What would be the name of this new division? My guess is that they use “Simmons Airlinesâ€￾ for the current Eagle entity, making it an American Connection carrier, and reserve the Eagle name for the new division.

 

[Buck]

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/storie...lots.cb559.html

Apparently the APA is researching the feasibility of allowing AA to operate a small jet division, 70 - 100 seaters, using APA pilots at reduced compensation.

In the past, AA would have jumped at the chance, but this article kind of makes it sound that management may be cool to the idea.

Is it possible that management would decline the offer, instead, opting to have Tri-States fly these jets? Would APA's contract allow codesharing in this situation?

What would be the name of this new division? My guess is that they use “Simmons Airlinesâ€￾ for the current Eagle entity, making it an American Connection carrier, and reserve the Eagle name for the new division.

[post="248164"][/post]​

OSM rates for the pilots? Is the TWU now negotiating for the APA?

 

[AAmech]

The pilots have generally been better at reading the writing on the wall than other groups. In my group (AMT's) we still have a significant percentage who thinks all this bad news is simply being made up!

 

[Mach85ER]

"Reduced Compensation"?

A pilot with 15 years seniority at AA, including retirement, makes less than most other airline pilots with 15 years of service (or max) in the US. This includes the LCC's like B6, AWA and Airtran.

How does AA 15 year seniority for TWU or F/A pay compare to 15 year (or max) pay at other US carriers for simialr jobs?

Thanks

 

[jetdryvr]

Hang on to your wallet FA's, Rampers, Mech's, ect. The comapny will require them to be operated at a much lower cost structure and that includes you. APA left that part out. Reality says we will not see a seperate division as it has not really worked for Delta, US Air, or United.

 

[amcnd]

look at the APA hotline saying the reporter took it way out of context. The company has said the 70-100 seat does not fit into its plan. just think how mad boeing would be if the got the 195 after just not taking amymore 737's. wont happen AMR has biger problems.. Fuel,debt..ect..

 

[AirwAr]

Hang on to your wallet FA's, Rampers, Mech's, ect. The comapny will require them to be operated at a much lower cost structure and that includes you. APA left that part out. Reality says we will not see a seperate division as it has not really worked for Delta, US Air, or United.

[post="248299"][/post]​

In reality, AA already has a small jet division called American Eagle, so the real negotiations would probably be between ALPA and the APA. If they can come to some agreement whereby APA pilots operate the 70/100 seaters at Eagle, I think management would jump at the chance.

What the 3 carriers you mention did was slightly different. They operated the same type of equipment in a different division. Also, they tried to isolate that division's flying from mainline.

In this case, Eagle would still be operating equipment smaller than mainline. Also, in Ealge's case, their flying is not isolated from AA's so it would continue to play the role it does today, only that it would probably fly to slightly larger markets.

 

[amcnd]

Getting a 70-100 seat jet is to much of a capital expenditure. AMR will not buy any airplanes for atleast 4-5 years. What better way to make boeing mad by delaying 737 orders, then ordering 200 EMB-190's form Embraer! Not going to happen. Doesnt fit the AMR model the next 4 years.

 

[AirwAr]

Getting a 70-100 seat jet is to much of a capital expenditure. AMR will not buy any airplanes for atleast 4-5 years. What better way to make boeing mad by delaying 737 orders, then ordering 200 EMB-190's form Embraer! Not going to happen. Doesnt fit the AMR model the next 4 years.

[post="248512"][/post]​

You're predicting that neither Eagle nor AA will buy aircraft for 4-5 years? A lot can happen in that amount of time. I guess we'll see.

Why would Boeing be mad. Eagle has never agreed to a "sole provider" clause with Boeing and even if they did, Boeing doesn't produce a 100 seat aircraft.

I would bet that Embraer would be more than willing to provide excellent financing terms to Eagle if it purchased 100 seaters. Who knows, maybe even no-money-down financing.

 

[Mach85ER]

I predict AA will be liquidated before AE operates a 100 seater. They might have a chance if all AA furloughed pilots have returned and there is one seniority list, but not before.

 

[AirwAr]

I predict AA will be liquidated before AE operates a 100 seater. They might have a chance if all AA furloughed pilots have returned and there is one seniority list, but not before.

[post="248607"][/post]​

That's what I was saying. That's why I said the real negotiations will be between ALPA (Ealge) and the APA (AA).

The cleanest scenario may be for Eagle pilots to join APA, but I don't think it would be a requirement. Either way I'm sure an agreement between ALPA and APA can be structured so that no Eagle pilots are displaced. Maybe put a fence around the current Eagle pilots until all APA are back to work.

The 2 parties would just have to agree that any new 70-100 seat aircraft are manned from the pool of APA pilots that are on furlough. Once they are back, they would start drawing from the Eagle ranks to fill the new positions. If the seniority lists aren't already merged, then an Eagle pilot would transfer from ALPA to the APA when s/he moves up to the 70 seater.

 

[IORFA]

AA is taking delivery of 2 777's this year

 

[flyhigh]

...they could simply order E170's with a front cabin putting at less than 70 seats and let AE fly it...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The pilots have generally been better at reading the writing on the wall than other groups. In my group (AMT's) we still have a significant percentage who thinks all this bad news is simply being made up!

The signifigant percentage obviously thinks otherwise or else they would have voted NO to the concession package.

Obviously the pilots are better at reading and writing what was once a 2X pay disparity has now ballooned into 4X pay disparity. I dont blame the pilots I blame people like you who think the twu is the answer and the company never lies

 

[jetdryvr]

...they could simply order E170's with a front cabin putting at less than 70 seats and let AE fly it...

[post="248695"][/post]​

This would not work as the Aircraft is certified for more than 70 seats and it's gross take off weight is higher than allowed. Working out a merger between APA and AE pilots would be a nightmare. It is not the same as buying an outside carrier.