APA proposes new scope clause

[donttouchthebeauty]

Perhaps Ops can shed some light on his opinions.

Garfield. Sharing my opinion will do nothing. We are both talking about a work group who is as bad as Upper management or worse. And we are talking to Local 12 a person who thinks he knows all and is never wrong. I have my opinion about the Pilot work group as a whole. I know some Pilots personally and respect them and what they do. But they have a Union that speaks for them and allows me to make an impression based on how they act and what they say. So if I have such a negative opinion of our Pilots. Blame the PR machine called the APA.

DTTB go back under your rock

AHHH, whats wrong OPS.. Does someone not like reality? Get used to it Hon, your going to get slapped with it real soon..

 

[777 fixer]

Garfield, what this work group, doesn't realize is this... Lets say the pilots start the negotiating at 50% and they get 25% after all the negotiating, then you have the rest of the work groups who will insist on getting something (maybe not as much as the pilots b/c they will eat up the small percentage of positive cash flow) f/a's and mechanics etc... Put that into play with high fuel, a floundering economy and highest labor costs already, with inefficient gas guzzler 80's and you have yourself a true death sentence... The employees at AMR will be VERY fORTUNATE if they receive anything in negotiations, and if they get anything substansial, AMR will file BK in my opinion.. IF mgmt., gives the pilots even half of what they are asking, you can bet they are already drawing up the plans for BK...

If I didn't know any better I would say you have a rather unhealthy pathological obsession with AA. Did Bob Crandall burn your house down or something?

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

If I didn't know any better I would say you have a rather unhealthy pathological obsession with AA. Did Bob Crandall burn your house down or something?

Oh no no no, you see, there is a problem with airline employees in general, for not looking at the BIG picture, you have to look at the whole scope.. That is something that emplyees don't do and that is why they lose... So just b/c I post on AA message board makes me obsessive, not even maybe, the problem is people can't deal with the reality of situations... If you remember sometime back the majority of AA posters were on the UAL board hating, saying that UAL was going to be sold off in pieces, then you all of a sudden see AEagle up for sale. All of a sudden, the hating ceases for awhile.. Its about the big PIC - c'mon, I post on all boards not just AA and UAL, I have to post on the AA boards so much b/c they post falsehoods and don't see the big PIC... It is hillarious to me that these peple think they are going to get lavish raises among all work groups, while fuel is rising and the economy is not well at all.. We'll see, maybe i am wrong, but hey it is a Pull together win together strategy right??? Or was that just some silly slogan.. By the time negoitations are in full swing next year, I would say, the economy will be in much worse shape than it is now, the predictions for profits for next year have already fell, negotiations will turn into a bloodbath, it isn't going to be pretty, but hey if you guys think different - god help ya!!!

 

[777 fixer]

Oh no no no, you see, there is a problem with airline employees in general, for not looking at the BIG picture, you have to look at the whole scope.. That is something that emplyees don't do and that is why they lose... So just b/c I post on AA message board makes me obsessive, not even maybe, the problem is people can't deal with the reality of situations... If you remember sometime back the majority of AA posters were on the UAL board hating, saying that UAL was going to be sold off in pieces, then you all of a sudden see AEagle up for sale. All of a sudden, the hating ceases for awhile.. Its about the big PIC - c'mon, I post on all boards not just AA and UAL, I have to post on the AA boards so much b/c they post falsehoods and don't see the big PIC... It is hillarious to me that these peple think they are going to get lavish raises among all work groups, while fuel is rising and the economy is not well at all.. We'll see, maybe i am wrong, but hey it is a Pull together win together strategy right??? Or was that just some silly slogan.. By the time negoitations are in full swing next year, I would say, the economy will be in much worse shape than it is now, the predictions for profits for next year have already fell, negotiations will turn into a bloodbath, it isn't going to be pretty, but hey if you guys think different - god help ya!!!

Please don't talk to us like we have our heads in the sand and only you the great donttouchthebeauty sees all and knows all. Quite frankly it's the same thing from you time after time. It's really starting to become a bit boring.

If there were those from the AA board who posted on the UAL board saying that UA was going to be sold off in pieces and taking pleasure in it that says more about them than anything else now does it? I have a feeling this is what it's all about. You’re pissed at some AA board’s posters and you want pay back. Ever hear of taking the high road? Another thing, could you please back up the statement "majority of AA posters were on the UAL board hating". Who exactly is the "majority" of AA posters? Do you have actual facts and figures to support this claim? Or is this a case of "Well I think it's the majority". I for one have never posted at the UAL boards talking about UAL being sold off, going under etc. Having a good friend who lost his job at UAL I would not in a million years say things like that.

 

[local 12 proud]

I make my judgments based on the information I have at hand.

Hearsay from a chat board?

We all negotiate our pay. I do so with out the need of paying dues to a useless organization. If the pay offered to me is inadequate and I can find a better offer else where, I leave. It's a very simple case of supply and demand.

So negotiate for your 'cut of the pie' and don't worry about what the 'useless organizations' are able to negotiate for their respective work groups.

 

[Garfield1966]

Hearsay from a chat board?



So negotiate for your 'cut of the pie' and don't worry about what the 'useless organizations' are able to negotiate for their respective work groups.

Really Local. You have read enough of my posts to answer that question yourself and to coin a phrase you used earlier "but you knew that already".

You also know that if one group takes a larger portion of the pie, that leaves less for the rest of the groups.

 

[FWAAA]

You also know that if one group takes a larger portion of the pie, that leaves less for the rest of the groups.

Nonsense. Your thinking is constrained to such beliefs (let's call it "inside the box" analysis) because you don't have the benefit of a union negotiating for you. The size of the pie is limited only by your imagination. In fact, it gets larger each time another work group successfully negotiates a larger increase than the last work group. If you paid two hours of pay each month to such astute representatives, you'd already know that. B)

 

[Garfield1966]

Nonsense. Your thinking is constrained to such beliefs (let's call it "inside the box" analysis) because you don't have the benefit of a union negotiating for you. The size of the pie is limited only by your imagination. In fact, it gets larger each time another work group successfully negotiates a larger increase than the last work group. If you paid two hours of pay each month to such astute representatives, you'd already know that. B)

I cannot tell my the little icon thing if you are being serious or making a funny.

 

[Mach85ER]

If you paid two hours of pay each month to such astute representatives, you'd already know that. B)

For the pilots, try 1/3 of that amount.

 

[will fix for food]

Oh no no no, you see, there is a problem with airline employees in general, for not looking at the BIG picture, you have to look at the whole scope.. That is something that emplyees don't do and that is why they lose... So just b/c I post on AA message board makes me obsessive, not even maybe, the problem is people can't deal with the reality of situations... If you remember sometime back the majority of AA posters were on the UAL board hating, saying that UAL was going to be sold off in pieces, then you all of a sudden see AEagle up for sale. All of a sudden, the hating ceases for awhile.. Its about the big PIC - c'mon, I post on all boards not just AA and UAL, I have to post on the AA boards so much b/c they post falsehoods and don't see the big PIC... It is hillarious to me that these peple think they are going to get lavish raises among all work groups, while fuel is rising and the economy is not well at all.. We'll see, maybe i am wrong, but hey it is a Pull together win together strategy right??? Or was that just some silly slogan.. By the time negoitations are in full swing next year, I would say, the economy will be in much worse shape than it is now, the predictions for profits for next year have already fell, negotiations will turn into a bloodbath, it isn't going to be pretty, but hey if you guys think different - god help ya!!!

YOU have the big picture? It's incredibly arrogant of you to think you do and incredibly stupid of you to not realize you have probably the least amount of intelligent and factual statements on US Aviation outside of that scab over on the NW side.

BTW, the chance of an Eagle "sale" is pretty slim. The company is saying the divestiture is the real deal and not just a bargaining ploy at a time when just about every employee group at both airlines is in negotiations. Usually what they say and what happens are 180 degrees apart. If anything happens chances are it will be a spin-off to the current shareholders.

 

[eolesen]

Don't fool yourself. Eagle will spin off. The question is when.

 

[Bear96]

You also know that if one group takes a larger portion of the pie, that leaves less for the rest of the groups.

But if APA is so "useless," there is little danger of them being able to negotiate a large portion, right?

 

[will fix for food]

From the APA News Digest...

Proposed American Eagle Sell-Off Benefits No One

Communications Committee: A week ago, we told you our initial analysis of AMR management's very public announcement of their stated intent to sell off American Eagle (AE) was an empty offer designed only to bolster the sagging stock price. In another indication that our analysis was right on target, we have yet to find anyone who would benefit from an AE divestiture. Even Wall Street has failed to embrace the idea and the stock continues to slide as investors begin to understand how much management has destroyed employee relations, customer service and operational reliability.

Today our brothers and sisters at AE-ALPA issued a press release highlighting how severely customer service would be further adversely affected by an AE sell-off. It also discusses how our scope provisions would further restrict AE operations if it were no longer a wholly owned subsidiary of AMR.

Speaking of scope, last week we also publicized our new scope proposal which simply states ALL flying done by or on behalf of AMR will be performed by pilots on the AA seniority list. To clarify, this proposal is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. AA pilots, AE pilots, AMR, our customers and our shareholders would all benefit from being one airline. Breaking up the airline will create a more complex and restricted operation and cause further animosity and a more hostile work environment for employees. The benefits of one airline not only include operational and maintenance simplification and efficiency, it also creates happier and more productive employees. Once again, we can count on AMR management to take a path that is in the worst interest of all, so it should not surprise any of us that their proposed AE sell-off would benefit no one.

Your move Mr. Arpey...

 

[FWAAA]

And just today, the President ignored Lloyd Hill's pleas to veto the legislation raising the retirement age to 65:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi...ll=chi-site-nav

Wonder how many AA pilots will still retire prior to 65?

Looks like the impending pilot shortage we keep hearing about might have been lessened today.

 

[L1011Ret]

From the APA News Digest...

Proposed American Eagle Sell-Off Benefits No One

Communications Committee: A week ago, we told you our initial analysis of AMR management's very public announcement of their stated intent to sell off American Eagle (AE) was an empty offer designed only to bolster the sagging stock price. In another indication that our analysis was right on target, we have yet to find anyone who would benefit from an AE divestiture. Even Wall Street has failed to embrace the idea and the stock continues to slide as investors begin to understand how much management has destroyed employee relations, customer service and operational reliability.

Today our brothers and sisters at AE-ALPA issued a press release highlighting how severely customer service would be further adversely affected by an AE sell-off. It also discusses how our scope provisions would further restrict AE operations if it were no longer a wholly owned subsidiary of AMR.

Speaking of scope, last week we also publicized our new scope proposal which simply states ALL flying done by or on behalf of AMR will be performed by pilots on the AA seniority list. To clarify, this proposal is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. AA pilots, AE pilots, AMR, our customers and our shareholders would all benefit from being one airline. Breaking up the airline will create a more complex and restricted operation and cause further animosity and a more hostile work environment for employees. The benefits of one airline not only include operational and maintenance simplification and efficiency, it also creates happier and more productive employees. Once again, we can count on AMR management to take a path that is in the worst interest of all, so it should not surprise any of us that their proposed AE sell-off would benefit no one.

Your move Mr. Arpey...

Fly the airplanes and leave the managing of AA to those qualified, educated and hired to do so.