AA's upgauging of the 320 family

[WorldTraveler]

Now that AA, like DL, has become an A320 family operator and the number of aircraft has dramatically increased of the merger, it is interesting to see how the aircraft takes its place on new AA's network.

The general "super sizing" of domestic narrowbody aircraft that is taking place via both the 739/ER and the 321 is taking place across the industry.

Yet, AA made the decision to buy both the 319 and 321 and yet some think the 319 is on its way out of fashion.


Aviation consultant Robert Mann called the A320, both the current model and the new engine model, a stalwart, but said the A318 is extinct and the A319 is headed there.

does new AA really have as many 321s in service as 319s? what is the general retirement schedule for the US 320 family and how many of the new AA 320 family orders will replace US aircraft, if any, and when?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/05/25/at-american-airlines-airbus-a321-is-forcing-out-the-a320/?partner=yahootix

 

[USFlyer]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the new AA management change the orders to reduce the number of new A319s and increase the number of new A321s.

 

[Phoenix]

Now that AA, like DL, has become an A320 family operator and the number of aircraft has dramatically increased of the merger, it is interesting to see how the aircraft takes its place on new AA's network.The general "super sizing" of domestic narrowbody aircraft that is taking place via both the 739/ER and the 321 is taking place across the industry.Yet, AA made the decision to buy both the 319 and 321 and yet some think the 319 is on its way out of fashion.Aviation consultant Robert Mann called the A320, both the current model and the new engine model, a stalwart, but said the A318 is extinct and the A319 is headed there.does new AA really have as many 321s in service as 319s? what is the general retirement schedule for the US 320 family and how many of the new AA 320 family orders will replace US aircraft, if any, and when?http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/05/25/at-american-airlines-airbus-a321-is-forcing-out-the-a320/?partner=yahootix

AA has inherited the world's largest AB fleet, along with the world's premiere AB training programs. Petty talk of extinction is just that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you for your perspectives, gentlemen.

My question is regarding the retirement schedule for the US 319s and 320s.

I agree that the number of 319s from the AA order would likely be reduced since US has a number of them and the more favorable economics of the 320 and 321 should mean only as many as are necessary are added to the fleet.

given the size of the AA Airbus order, I don't think there is any doubt about how large the Airbus fleet is but whether instead the 319s will be used as much as the actual fleet plus orders would suggest.

 

[eolesen]

With load factors as high as they are, nobody wants the smaller airplane, but if we see another oil spike like we did a few years back, or if the hiring problem at the regionals gets critical, those 319's may become a lot more desirable.

 

[WorldTraveler]

loads and yields are high because consolidation is resulting in more disciplined capacity across the industry. Ironically, the higher fares would have helped justify keeping regional jets in the system longer but now the problem is a lack of pilots - so larger makes more sense.

Larger aircraft are possible as hubs are rationalized but no airline can maintain multiple competitive hubs that serve the same region.

The 319 is still one of the heaviest and most expensive small mainline aircraft because it is a shrink of an aircraft that can carry 60 more passengers at a minimal increase in trip costs... not the comment in the article.

The 319's role will be best suited as a longhaul aircraft for long, thin routes such as DFW-LIM as long as fares remain high but it can also serve as an RJ replacement in large hubs like DFW and CLT but where the market is concentrated enough that removing a couple frequencies in favor of larger capacity won't hurt competitiveness in the market.

In competitive markets such as ORD, NYC, and LAX the 319 is not a cost effective solution to smaller capacity when other carriers are using more efficient small aircraft or larger aircraft like larger mainline aircraft which have better costs.

As long as over 100 US 319s remain in the fleet, there is not a whole lot of need for AA to buy a bunch more of their own.

 

[nycbusdriver]

AA has inherited the world's largest AB fleet, along with the world's premiere AB training programs. Petty talk of extinction is just that.

 
Passengers like the "standard body" A320 series airplanes more than the "narrow body" Boeings.  They are simply more comfortable with the wider gauge, and therefore  wider seats.  When airline seats are squeezed together so excruciatingly, an inch or two more makes a lot of difference.

 

[FWAAA]

New AA has scaled back its A320neo firm order from 130 to 100:

In April 2014, we exercised our option to purchase and terminated our existing lease financing arrangements with respect to 62 Airbus A320 family aircraft scheduled to be delivered between the first quarter of 2015 and the third quarter of 2017. In connection with its exercise of such option, we also exercised our right to convert firm orders for 30 Airbus A320 family NEO aircraft, scheduled to be delivered in 2021 and 2022, to options to acquire such aircraft. The table above reflects these changes.

 
Source:  10-Q first quarter 2014
 
http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2014/04/american-changes-airbus-orders-to-options-also-chooses-to-buy-instead-of-finance-new-aircraft.html
 
AA hasn't revealed how many of the neo order would be A319s, A320s or A321s.   The initial order of older-model was split between A319s and A321s, which makes sense given that the 738 appears to be the model of choice for 160-seat mid-sized narrowbody.   

 

[Phoenix]

thank you for your perspectives, gentlemen.

My question is regarding the retirement schedule for the US 319s and 320s.

I agree that the number of 319s from the AA order would likely be reduced since US has a number of them and the more favorable economics of the 320 and 321 should mean only as many as are necessary are added to the fleet.

given the size of the AA Airbus order, I don't think there is any doubt about how large the Airbus fleet is but whether instead the 319s will be used as much as the actual fleet plus orders would suggest.

777's carry more passengers, and SouthWest has a single type to keep costs low.  If Delta would fly 777s exclusively just think about how much they could cut costs and increase revenue.  

 

[mistified]

Primary advantage of 319 is its performance compared to the 321 and 320 in getting out of high altitude airports and short runways. Think La Paz Bolivia.

 

[WorldTraveler]

777's carry more passengers, and SouthWest has a single type to keep costs low.  If Delta would fly 777s exclusively just think about how much they could cut costs and increase revenue.

except that aircraft like the 333 and 764 have far lower CASMs than the 737s do.

If WN really wanted to keep costs low and still break into the int'l market, they'd choose a widebody and get rid of the 737s.

Besides, WN has proven with its decision to get rid of the 717s that having the smallest mainline aircraft is not a priority.
 
 

Primary advantage of 319 is its performance compared to the 321 and 320 in getting out of high altitude airports and short runways. Think La Paz Bolivia.

the 757 can do everything a 319 can do - and a whole lot more.

and it can carry more passengers... more passengers clearly generates more revenue, right?

 

[eolesen]

Sure, there are 50 extra seats in the 757, but it doesn't mean they're profitable to operate...

Since the 757 is pay banded with the 767, and requires higher minimum crew, you're going to have a much higher operating cost than you would with the 319 being the bottom band with fewer FA's. I also seem to recall the 319 having a lower dead weight per seat than the 757, and that adds up to a much lower operating cost.

But... it's still not safe to say that the 757 can do everything a 319 can do. I suspect there are some airports the A319 can handle where the 757 would be a non-starter with those extra 50 seats filled. DRO and SDU are known examples, but I'm sure there are others.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I would like to see an example of an airport on AA's route system that a 319 could do but a 757 cannot.



and of course a larger aircraft comes with more seats which have to be filled but which also increases trip cost.

my comment is most targeted at those who think that the largest aircraft is the one that wins in the market.

Clearly, the whole reason for multiple aircraft types including the advent of RJs, is because putting the RIGHT aircraft in the market is the BEST aircraft. IN some cases, a 50 seat aircraft with high costs is still the right decision while in others a 400 seat 744 is the right choice.

The 321s will help AA only where they can fill those seats while the 319's smaller size and higher per seat costs have to be weighed together.

In some cases, smaller size is necessary but you don't want hundreds of them trying to compete in markets where other carriers can use larger, aircraft that are more cost efficient per seat.

 

[flyer63]

Time to raise the pay grouping on the 321. Company is getting away with murder that the 319 and 321 pay the same

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

The A319 will be used to upgauge some Eagle flying, much the same way DL is using the 717. It will likely make more efficient use of many LGA slots that are currently being used by ERJs and CRJs