AFA upset that + sizes can't wear red dress..

[LukeAisleWalker]

(just because the dress is being discussed doesnt mean people do not care about unemployment, ext..)

Dignity,
I did not mean to infer that you didn't care about the issues of the day. I highlited your posting as you seemed to be suggesting from your experiences in the terminal, etc.. that the red dress had basically become a celebrity unto itself. I was merely pointing out how far and away this has become and blown out of proportion in relation to much more important topics--all delighting the anti-union crowd to no end. Personally, I don't have the time to discuss the uniform in great length (sizes, styles, sexiness, frumpiness, juniors, missies, extra larges)..I try to "pick my battles" as it were and discuss things that will eventually affect the important areas of my life. The anti-union crowd says this has caused some to re-think their position on having representation. Hmm...
With that said,
Moving right along.........................................

 

[Dignity]

Dignity,
I did not mean to infer that you didn't care about the issues of the day. I highlited your posting as you seemed to be suggesting from your experiences in the terminal, etc.. that the red dress had basically become a celebrity unto itself.

well I dont know how to tell you this, but it has...maybe you do not see a difference in how people react always being a DL Flight Attendant, but I notice these things greatly from transitioning relatively shortly from one uniform to the next. We are perceived in an entirely different light being in that uniform and based on my experiences and doing nothing other than simply putting it on.. have been treated with an entirely different level of respect. I just notice a big difference regarding how people treat us, almost like they are in awe and its just very foreign to me ... I find it all fresh new and exciting... like being a new hire or something!

(I get sort of carried away sometimes sorry about that..)

I was merely pointing out how far and away this has become and blown out of proportion in relation to much more important topics--all delighting the anti-union crowd to no end.

so what if people delight in whatever or not, people are still going to have their opinions!

Personally, I don't have the time to discuss the uniform in great length (sizes, styles, sexiness, frumpiness, juniors, missies, extra larges)..I try to "pick my battles" as it were and discuss things that will eventually affect the important areas of my life. The anti-union crowd says this has caused some to re-think their position on having representation. Hmm...

one afternoon I chatted with my neighbor for hours about her rock garden and how the bench we were sitting on was carved out of a log. (for hours...) it wasnt so important though but found the time! she is a nice lady too.

With that said,
Moving right along.........................................

does that mean we are going to discuss the blue dress now?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Because someone may have a differing opinion does not make them financially irresponsible or not able to understand a 401K. Maybe many should have simply been labeled "some" or in my opinion simply not stated at all..

other than that, the rest of the post had some merit for discussion.

Okay, you're probably right.
SOME.

 

[NAPAUS]

:down: :down: Dosent ANYBODy see what this is really about? DL mgmnt is spinning this out of control, and they are EXPERTS at Union busting. They are feeding this frenzy - to further discredit AFA.
SCREW the red dress, AFA has much more important issues to tackle- pure and simple.
End it now AFA or you WILL loose. Remember senior DL employees are fiercely loyal, kool-aid drinkers and NW people are NOT RD ( real Delta ) and never will be! Just ask the PA and WA people.
AFA MOVE ON to getting the Union vote and be certified- ASAP!

 

[czerny]

a dress is now a union busting technique?

At a time when AFA is trying to court Delta votes, this issue isnt' going to help. People are losing jobs and pensions in this industry, the last thing they would want a union to waste dues over a uniform issue. Most of my roommates in this crashpad are Delta and NWA fas. THis doesn't concern them. As far as they are concerned, it's a waste of time and money. Either you can wear it or you can't.

 

[jalbalpa]

Delta Air Lines spends about $10 million per year to try and keep workgroups non-union. This is per an ALPA representative.

In 2008 about 800 DAL f/a's retired, almost 500 from ATL alone. This should help AFA. Add to the fact that management won't be able to run wild with their anti-union rhetorics this time around and it looks like the flight attendants will finally be able to bargain as a group!

 

[jalbalpa]

Sorry...dupe.

 

[Dignity]

owns the intellectual property rights to the dress

I honestly do not know the answer.. but that is sort of what I am thinking too. he created the uniform. that is why I would imagine.. he should be consulted for any changes.

(because it is his design)

oh yeah...

orthopedic shoes worn with that particular styled dress would not give anyone a good look, that is just good common fashion sense, the basics! even knee high boots are not allowed with the red dress either but allowed with other pieces.. so its not like they are just focusing on a particular style of shoe/boot... its just uniform regulation (like it has always been, its nothing new)

orthopedics ..I just sort of think..well, its a better idea to wear those types of shoes with slacks.

 

[southwind]

:down: :down: Dosent ANYBODy see what this is really about? DL mgmnt is spinning this out of control, and they are EXPERTS at Union busting. They are feeding this frenzy - to further discredit AFA.
SCREW the red dress, AFA has much more important issues to tackle- pure and simple.
End it now AFA or you WILL loose. Remember senior DL employees are fiercely loyal, kool-aid drinkers and NW people are NOT RD ( real Delta ) and never will be! Just ask the PA and WA people.
AFA MOVE ON to getting the Union vote and be certified- ASAP!

And just how many of these "senior DL employees that are fiercely loyal, kool-aid drinkers" do you know on a personal basis , in order to make that assumption ? :down:

 

[southwind]

Delta Air Lines spends about $10 million per year to try and keep workgroups non-union. This is per an ALPA representative.

In 2008 about 800 DAL f/a's retired, almost 500 from ATL alone. This should help AFA. Add to the fact that management won't be able to run wild with their anti-union rhetorics this time around and it looks like the flight attendants will finally be able to bargain as a group!

So you are taking a "UNION-Representative's" word , that Delta spends $10 million dollars per year to keep work-groups, non-union ?

Talk about an un-biased opinion !

 

[WoRkInG]

So you are taking a "UNION-Representative's" word , that Delta spends $10 million dollars per year to keep work-groups, non-union ?

Talk about an un-biased opinion !

You can find out approx how much was spent on lobbying against the employee free choice act going here ---> http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum...irlines&id=

 

[NAPAUS]

And just how many of these "senior DL employees that are fiercely loyal, kool-aid drinkers" do you know on a personal basis , in order to make that assumption ? :down:

AHh YES I do know on a personal basis. I worked in ATL and saw it first hand. Saw the inner working of the GO and how DL senior people respond to the fear tactics. The good Ol' DL Management style is alive and well. If it's not your experience thats GREAT, but it's mine. AFA STILL has an uphill battle.

 

[BABABOOY]

:down: :down: Dosent ANYBODy see what this is really about? DL mgmnt is spinning this out of control, and they are EXPERTS at Union busting. They are feeding this frenzy - to further discredit AFA.
SCREW the red dress, AFA has much more important issues to tackle- pure and simple.
End it now AFA or you WILL loose. Remember senior DL employees are fiercely loyal, kool-aid drinkers and NW people are NOT RD ( real Delta ) and never will be! Just ask the PA and WA people.
AFA MOVE ON to getting the Union vote and be certified- ASAP!

Remind yourself:
This "Frezy they are feeding" was created by the AFA.
Can't you and the rest of the Union supporters just admit that
maybe this wasn't the best time? or is it support the AFA no matter what?
Many of us do believe there are more urgent issues that the XXXL Red Dress.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Remind yourself:
This "Frezy they are feeding" was created by the AFA.
Can't you and the rest of the Union supporters just admit that
maybe this wasn't the best time? or is it support the AFA no matter what?
Many of us do believe there are more urgent issues that the XXXL Red Dress.

So BB,
If several NW f/a's filed complaints (about the uniform INCLUDING the RED DRESS) with the grievance committee at NW AFA, NW AFA should have told them "too bad., we're not filing it, now's not the right time". ??? Then wouldn't you people be saying: "HEY! AFA doesn't listen to their members!! What a waste of 43 bucks a month!!"
Your post seems to suggest that all AFA has done all year is file a grievance about a red dress.
They've already explained (see below) it takes up very little time, costing little money.
Have they ever stated that they feel it's an urgent issue??? NO, they haven't. YOUR CROWD is the one that's projected that sentiment onto the AFA, thus furthering your own agenda.
The funny thing is the anti-union group thinks they live in a vacuum; that no one can see through what they're doing...all for political expediency...all becaue they are actually afraid this time. Afraid the election may pass. It's quite laughable actually. (Well, for those of us that find kool-aid too sugary).
Please note the email that was sent out by NW AFA:

13 July 2009



Dear Colleagues,



Over the past several days, the media began taking notice of a grievance update found in the July 3rd MEC hotline (click here to view the original hotline). The so-called “red dress grievanceâ€￾ has taken on a life of its own and has been twisted to outrageous proportion. Some of the related comments received by the MEC and found on Internet forums have been shocking and cruel. So there is no question as to the motivation for filing this grievance, we would like to set the currently distorted record straight.



To be absolutely clear: The media is chasing this story. It was not brought to the newspapers by the Union. The dress is one piece of a grievance filed in early May over several outstanding uniform issues.



Besides the uniform issue, there are also grievances pertaining to onboard staffing, and negotiations are almost complete to establish a “split-lineâ€￾ program that may help offset the need for involuntary furloughs. AFA has been successful in lobbying to get unemployment benefits for our members in Minnesota who take SLIP leaves. We recently helped to get a Senate bill introduced to include flight attendants in FMLA legislation. It is unclear as to why equal attention hasn’t been given to these issues, except for their apparent lack of sensationalistic appeal.



The Union embodies the ideal of "an injustice to one is an injustice to all." We believe it is reasonable and right to offer the uniform pieces in all sizes and allow flight attendants to decide what they are most comfortable wearing. We do not apologize for fighting for what is right, even if it seems silly to those not affected. The red dress issue is one of discrimination, plain and simple.


A grievance filing is not extraordinary - - they take minutes to file and do not put a strain on dues money. The Union files a grievance when we believe the contract or past-practice has been violated. The grievance creates a record and a history to maintain all the things we have fought for over the years. Just like thousands of small and large issues before this, our Union helps stem the tide of a thousand encroachments on our rights and our contract.



Rarely do paradigm shifts in our industry happen over night. Substantial change is typically the result of a rule or practice being chipped away over the years until a new model exists. Did any of us think 10 years ago that we would have domestic partner benefits? In the not-so-distant past, flight attendants were subject to the following stipulations:



Retirement at the age of 32
Forced to quit if married or pregnant
No men were hired; then when they were hired received preferential pay over women
Women could not work as pursers and could not wear eyeglasses
Weight limits and humiliating “weigh-inâ€￾ before checking in for trips
Discriminatory hiring practices that included race, sex, height and weight standards
Discriminatory pass travel and insurance coverage based on gender
If you are a female over 32, a mother, a female purser, a man, married, a woman who is paid the same as her male colleague – you are here because you benefited from these issues being fought and won in the legal arena, including the grievance process.



We will continue to advocate for our profession, whether it is with aircraft staffing, uniform availability, hedges against furlough, job protection and other issues that affect flight attendants.



Please take care of each other, fly the contract, and wear your union pins. Contact us at [email protected] with any questions.



In Unity,



Northwest AFA-CWA Master Executive Council







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[BABABOOY]

And they accuse Anti AFA supports of not being critical readers/thinkers.....
You believe everything that the AFA puts out?
They could have DEFERED this issue at this time. Why can't you
just admit that maybe this wasn't the best time? Ideology getting
in the way? Oh BTW gotta love the whole "you people" and "Your Crowd"
comments. I guess that's the difference between you and I (among many others)
I have no problem calling Delta out on something when they are wrong. However
The AFA supporters on this board feel that the AFA can do no wrong and will not
call them out on anything. That (among many other things) is why more and more
F/A's are feeling the AFA just isn't for them. And as far as feeling scared ? You sure
that isn't the other way around? I came within 1 % of my prediction of the last vote.
I will soon make another. hint, it isn't looking good for the AFA. Most don't like
conflict and they are quickly seeing and hearing, that what the AFA is all about.
Again, each side has their pro's and con's. I would think any reasonable person can
admit that. The 10 million dollar question is, the lesser of two evils.....
I know its a hard pill to swallow, but many F/A's just don't like the AFA.......
I give our f/a group much more credit then some on here. oh thats another thing,
f/a's are sick of those supports, (would that mean YOU people?) that consistantly talk/write
down to others. Face it, "we just aren't that into you ....."