afa/CWA hooks don't look to be sinking in

Fly

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Mar 7, 2003
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This was an e-mail sent to me. I think that it originated from one of the Parking Lot Six. It describes the afa-CWA's grand event at the Delta Atlanta Parking Lot.

Rally? Really… That Was A Rally?


So what happened? The AFA supporters announced (on their website, hotline, email blast, other affiliated websites, etc.) that they were holding a "rally" at the employee parking lot on October 1, held in conjunction with the CWA (Communications Workers of America, the Big Brother of AFA), ITF (International Transport Workers Federation), and IAM (International Association of Machinists). Politicians and media were invited, along with their own supporters: "A big Delta flight attendant presence would be impressive and help us garner more support for our cause... Please consider taking some time from your day to invest in your future."

I thought I'd check it out, curious to hear the message from the local, national and international representatives. Plus, I wanted to see the politicians that would show up to lend their support. I was also interested to see the Delta AFA supporters that were expected to show 'en masse.' I think I was expecting to be impressed by a truly massive show of support.

After showing up, I was spotted immediately from across the street and then told a couple of times to stay away from the rally since I was in my uniform, and above all else- whatever I did- "If you see the media, don't speak to them." Did they notice I didn't have an AFA pin or did they see my "I Believe in Our Delta" pin? Hmmm…

At first, the crowd looked like it would be impressive, gathering on both sides of the entrance to the lot, and even standing in the median. Some were holding signs while others were passing out leaflets of some sort. A couple of others were shouting into their bullhorns. They got traffic to stop a couple of times coming into the lot (sorry for those trying to get to work on time).

I started counting through the supporters- I came up with around 37 or so at the rally's "peak!" Talking to the local CWA president, he told me, "All the ones in red tees are mine," and I guess he had almost 20 show up. IAM had about 5. ITF had maybe 2 in attendance (they were waving their branded flags). National AFA had a few there from other airlines (AirTran and Alaska). So it looked like there were only 4-5 Delta flight attendants (does a retiree count?) that could attend and make the "investment," I guess.

Then the "rally" was set to begin, my anticipation on edge. The hordes of thirty-odd were huddled together, and the speeches began. Or did they? Granted I was across the street, but the bullhorn messages sounded like the usual mantra: "We need a union," "We need a contract," "We need it now," etc. I didn't mind my vantage point- I assume it was just as hard to hear over on the assembly side, what with all those beautiful Delta planes roaring overhead every minute and a half.

Now, I will admit that I don't know many local Atlanta politicians, but I didn't see any political-looking folks that I could name. No one was shaking hands or kissing babies. Okay, okay- there weren't any babies there, but you get the point. They just weren't there.

And the media? No CNN camera, no AJC reporter, no local news helicopters getting the birds-eye view. Of course, with the size of the crowd, a tree branch would have given just enough of a true bird's eye view. In fact, the only cameras I saw were the ones of the attendees snapping pictures of each other. Oh, and they got a few pictures of me across the street with a few other flight attendants that had joined me in uniform. Don't worry- they were told to get a release for using my likeness in their propaganda, so we'll see if they are upright and honest enough to stick by their word. Who knows- maybe if I'm lucky enough I'll go up on one of their bulletin boards somewhere as the one to avoid!

A couple or supporters came over to speak to me. "Mantra, mantra, mantra," but still no convincing arguments and even less credibility. The skirting of issues and runaround are very clever. Focus, people- focus.

So, again, what happened? Not a lot of anything, to be perfectly honest. Looks like another AFA distraction tactic that failed. Well, AFA-CWA has told their admittedly disgruntled members that "Bad breath is better than no breath at all." I'm thinking in this case, it was more like a last desperate, mournful gasp of breath.

(Incidentally, the ITF was holding a meeting of it's own in Atlanta for the labor organizations representing the SkyTeam members. According to the ITF's ownStrategic Campaign Manual, "Usually 70 per cent participation in a collective activity is a minimum to ensure success." So would they consider the AFA's attempt at a "rally" a success for AFA if ~5 supporters showed up?!)

I was not impressed. I'm still not fooled. I am still not convinced.

Thanks, AFA, but absolutely no thanks. But just so you know, I'll be there at your next "rally," ready to speak to any and all supporters, politicians and media to show my support to keep Delta flight attendants union free. No more sitting idly by while you spread your misinformation. No more giving you time to manipulate others. No more spreading fear and lying.
 
This was an e-mail sent to me. I think that it originated from one of the Parking Lot Six. It describes the afa-CWA's grand event at the Delta Atlanta Parking Lot.

Rally? Really… That Was A Rally?
So what happened? The AFA supporters announced (on their website, hotline, email blast, other affiliated websites, etc.) that they were holding a "rally" at the employee parking lot on October 1, held in conjunction with the CWA (Communications Workers of America, the Big Brother of AFA), ITF (International Transport Workers Federation), and IAM (International Association of Machinists). Politicians and media were invited, along with their own supporters: "A big Delta flight attendant presence would be impressive and help us garner more support for our cause... Please consider taking some time from your day to invest in your future."

I thought I'd check it out, curious to hear the message from the local, national and international representatives. Plus, I wanted to see the politicians that would show up to lend their support. I was also interested to see the Delta AFA supporters that were expected to show 'en masse.' I think I was expecting to be impressed by a truly massive show of support.

After showing up, I was spotted immediately from across the street and then told a couple of times to stay away from the rally since I was in my uniform, and above all else- whatever I did- "If you see the media, don't speak to them." Did they notice I didn't have an AFA pin or did they see my "I Believe in Our Delta" pin? Hmmm…

At first, the crowd looked like it would be impressive, gathering on both sides of the entrance to the lot, and even standing in the median. Some were holding signs while others were passing out leaflets of some sort. A couple of others were shouting into their bullhorns. They got traffic to stop a couple of times coming into the lot (sorry for those trying to get to work on time).

I started counting through the supporters- I came up with around 37 or so at the rally's "peak!" Talking to the local CWA president, he told me, "All the ones in red tees are mine," and I guess he had almost 20 show up. IAM had about 5. ITF had maybe 2 in attendance (they were waving their branded flags). National AFA had a few there from other airlines (AirTran and Alaska). So it looked like there were only 4-5 Delta flight attendants (does a retiree count?) that could attend and make the "investment," I guess.

Then the "rally" was set to begin, my anticipation on edge. The hordes of thirty-odd were huddled together, and the speeches began. Or did they? Granted I was across the street, but the bullhorn messages sounded like the usual mantra: "We need a union," "We need a contract," "We need it now," etc. I didn't mind my vantage point- I assume it was just as hard to hear over on the assembly side, what with all those beautiful Delta planes roaring overhead every minute and a half.

Now, I will admit that I don't know many local Atlanta politicians, but I didn't see any political-looking folks that I could name. No one was shaking hands or kissing babies. Okay, okay- there weren't any babies there, but you get the point. They just weren't there.

And the media? No CNN camera, no AJC reporter, no local news helicopters getting the birds-eye view. Of course, with the size of the crowd, a tree branch would have given just enough of a true bird's eye view. In fact, the only cameras I saw were the ones of the attendees snapping pictures of each other. Oh, and they got a few pictures of me across the street with a few other flight attendants that had joined me in uniform. Don't worry- they were told to get a release for using my likeness in their propaganda, so we'll see if they are upright and honest enough to stick by their word. Who knows- maybe if I'm lucky enough I'll go up on one of their bulletin boards somewhere as the one to avoid!

A couple or supporters came over to speak to me. "Mantra, mantra, mantra," but still no convincing arguments and even less credibility. The skirting of issues and runaround are very clever. Focus, people- focus.

So, again, what happened? Not a lot of anything, to be perfectly honest. Looks like another AFA distraction tactic that failed. Well, AFA-CWA has told their admittedly disgruntled members that "Bad breath is better than no breath at all." I'm thinking in this case, it was more like a last desperate, mournful gasp of breath.

(Incidentally, the ITF was holding a meeting of it's own in Atlanta for the labor organizations representing the SkyTeam members. According to the ITF's ownStrategic Campaign Manual, "Usually 70 per cent participation in a collective activity is a minimum to ensure success." So would they consider the AFA's attempt at a "rally" a success for AFA if ~5 supporters showed up?!)

I was not impressed. I'm still not fooled. I am still not convinced.

Thanks, AFA, but absolutely no thanks. But just so you know, I'll be there at your next "rally," ready to speak to any and all supporters, politicians and media to show my support to keep Delta flight attendants union free. No more sitting idly by while you spread your misinformation. No more giving you time to manipulate others. No more spreading fear and lying.

Wow! That was some report! What's interesting about it is that you had the time to go out for the event when you don't even support AFA.
I mean, obviously there are more than 37 ATL-based FAs that support AFA who didn't have the time or were working and probably many who are not for union representation who also were busy with their lives.
But YOU took the time to go out to the event....why?
a. Fear? (could AFA really win??)
b. You're being paid to spy and wip up anti-union propoganda?
c. Both a & b
d. None of the above; you just have too much time on your hands/no life.
 
Wow! That was some report! What's interesting about it is that you had the time to go out for the event when you don't even support AFA.
I mean, obviously there are more than 37 ATL-based FAs that support AFA who didn't have the time or were working and probably many who are not for union representation who also were busy with their lives.
But YOU took the time to go out to the event....why?
a. Fear? (could AFA really win??)
b. You're being paid to spy and wip up anti-union propoganda?
c. Both a & b
d. None of the above; you just have too much time on your hands/no life.

Wow! That is quite a double standard here!

The union people can hold their rally without your questioning them.

It must really hurt you to know that there are people out here who do not hold your beliefs.
 
Wow! That is quite a double standard here!

The union people can hold their rally without your questioning them.

It must really hurt you to know that there are people out here who do not hold your beliefs.

As usual aislehopper, you're reading waaay too much into the post. I have absolutely NO problem with people questioning. I truly believe in it. I was merely commenting on what would inspire someone to go to the rally, then sit down and write a 2 page, extremely detailed report on it when they're not involved in the campaign and by their own admission know that turn-out was low? If it's a bust, why invest the energy?
Now if you had replied: "He/she must feel very strongly about Delta remaining union free, perhaps was on their way to work anyway (hence the uniform) and feels the need to get a different message out."
That I could understand.
You seem to have quite a large chip on your shoulder...it's only gotten larger these past 6 years. I mean, YOU are the one who says no one on your trips talks about afa, rarely see afa pins, etc...so why so angry if the campaign is a bust? I mean it would be like if in the Gubenetorial race in CA a few years ago..Did Arnold Scharzenegger spend so much energy and time railing against the fringe that ran against him (the stripper, a guy dressed up as Uncle Sam and Gary Goleman of "Different Strokes")? Of course not; he battled the lead Dem and the lead Independent. I liken the AFA in your and Mr "Fly's" views as being a fringe element. (once again: no one at work talking about it, no pins, no one showing up at the rally).
Why are you looking for a fight when your side says there isn't one? There's no problem w/ disagreement. We all want the same things, really...respect, better working conditions, improved pay. We just believe there are different ways to achieve them. Try loosening the chip...I bet you would be taken a lot more seriously.
Have a great evening.
 
Don't you fly for American? Why is it important at AA that AFA/CWA does not win a vote at Delta? Just curious........

No, United. I think AFA/CWA has done nothing to help the cause of anyone (at least at UAL) and I'd hate to see another group of f/a's waste their money for no representation. I think afa is corrupt.
 
You seem to have quite a large chip on your shoulder...it's only gotten larger these past 6 years. I mean, YOU are the one who says no one on your trips talks about afa, rarely see afa pins, etc...so why so angry if the campaign is a bust?
You might want to read your post and Aislehoppers again. You are the one who is coming across as angry.
 
No, United. I think AFA/CWA has done nothing to help the cause of anyone (at least at UAL) and I'd hate to see another group of f/a's waste their money for no representation. I think afa is corrupt.


I can see where some people have disagreements with AFA, but that is true with every union.. The AFA has allowed me to keep seniority at 2 airlines and protected me through furlough, unlike other unions... I also have a management team that has to play by, MY-OUR Constitution and Bylaws... Not my companies rules, that can change at a whim.. Did you all know that DAL still has people on furlough and are hiring people for language positions right now, now that is dirty... I never quite understood why non AFA AA people hate the AFA so much. I just wish the best for the DAL Flight Crews, because I guarantee if they vote it down this time, and then they merge with an AFA carrier, they probably won't get DOH.. Why wouldn't you want a Constitution and Bylaws??? FLY, what did the AFA NOT do for you that makes you so BITTER?? You have a seniority list that is followed and you have better vaca, better work rules, and management has to be held accountable for their actions, you have paid holidays, many many things the Deltoids do not.. You have representation in a hearing, the list goes for a mile... Hopefully, people see this and are not further brainwashed by management, Many people just want to see others fail, the BS by certain posters on here is knee deep, the ones that spray the nasty talk have never been members of AFA (except you FLY) Yeah AFA has its problems, but trust me so does everyone else. Too bad the APFA doesnt have the nads to organize you, but hey they can sure talk trash, Huh??? :rolleyes: Good luck Deltoids -
 
No, United. I think AFA/CWA has done nothing to help the cause of anyone (at least at UAL) and I'd hate to see another group of f/a's waste their money for no representation. I think afa is corrupt.

Ditto. At AA, we had the opportunity several times to go AFA and we rejected it, or it failed, several times. A former Continental union rep warned us years ago (Continental was AFA prior to going independent. A few years after the 83 strike, they went IAM.) She said that if we thought our union representatives had disagreements, we ought to see an AFA MEC meeting where all the airlines are slugging it out, with the smaller ones often blocking things that would benefit the larger ones.

There was also a lot of resentment at AFA towards UA because it was perceived that the AFA's main focus was UA. I have no idea whether this is the case now, but I can only imagine the fights that would erupt between DL and UA MECs based on their different interests.
 
Did you all know that DAL still has people on furlough and are hiring people for language positions right now, now that is dirty...

you have paid holidays,

DTTB:

A couple of corrections to your post.

First, every one on the furlough list has had the opportunity to come back to the line if they want. This has been the case for quite a while now. The people still on the list and out are ones who want to stay out as long as possible. For example, a person that has been based in ATL has preferenced LAX as a base. They are hoping that it will be a while until LAX is open so they can stay out on furlough longer.

Currently, we are not hiring languages for in-flight. We were hiring in the Spring and Summer, but I beleive that the last new hires hit the line in July, and all of the recent language hires were hired after the furlough list people had a chance to come back.

We also have Holiday Pay.
 
I never quite understood why non AFA AA people hate the AFA so much.


This has perplexed me as well. I've been with UA for 12 years and my dues have never increased. Between what AFA was able to preserve and what was being asked of us to concede in the company's term sheet during the bankruptcy process, is night and day. The fact that I was on voluntary furlough for 2 years with full medical, dental, travel, and seniority accrual BECAUSE of the language in our contract, is good enough for me. I view my union contract as an insurance policy...only I get to write off my dues at the end of each year. For me, it's money WELL SPENT. I've been on the other side of working for a carrier that was non-union, and I don't want to be in a position of not having ANY negotiating leverage, ever again. I don't expect to convince anyone on this board otherwise, but I do feel compelled to reply to postings that continually bash AFA, especially those AA posters, whose union sold them out at a time when their company wasn't even in bankruptcy. But hey; To each, his own...
 
You might want to read your post and Aislehoppers again. You are the one who is coming across as angry.

With all due respect Mikey, I did not start the thread by demeaning a group of people who are doing what they think is in DL f/a's best interests. When I questioned the motivation behind Fly's investigative report, (and let's say your opinion is correct...that it was just "curiosity"), I was accused by aislehopper of trying to stamp out voices of disagreement. Trying to figure out someone's motivation is not the same thing as stifling descent. I am JUST CURIOUS...you understand that, don't you? So please Mikey, go back and re-read the postings again. The inherent problem with emails and message board postings is we infer so much in them that's not there. With that being said, accusations are clear in black and white and Ms.Aislehopper throws them out with abandon.
 
This has perplexed me as well. I've been with UA for 12 years and my dues have never increased. Between what AFA was able to preserve and what was being asked of us to concede in the company's term sheet during the bankruptcy process, is night and day. The fact that I was on voluntary furlough for 2 years with full medical, dental, travel, and seniority accrual BECAUSE of the language in our contract, is good enough for me. I view my union contract as an insurance policy...only I get to write off my dues at the end of each year. For me, it's money WELL SPENT. I've been on the other side of working for a carrier that was non-union, and I don't want to be in a position of not having ANY negotiating leverage, ever again. I don't expect to convince anyone on this board otherwise, but I do feel compelled to reply to postings that continually bash AFA, especially those AA posters, whose union sold them out at a time when their company wasn't even in bankruptcy. But hey; To each, his own...


As opposed to your union which sold you out in so many other ways, as well. Just ask any of the folks who were out on long-term sick under the previous 7 year inactive provision in your contract who were unceremoniously "separated" from the company when they changed it to a 3 year required return.