Afa

[Colby]

Hey Guys,


Yep it's been a while but I did want to add a little something...

After being Furloughed for more that 1 year I recieved a Phone call from my Inflight Supervisor requesting a "Mandatory Meeting".... Im not going to go into what this consisted of because the point is MOOT now !!!

I called the AFA in PHL for guidence and after 3 years of Paying my Dues and NEVER needing any help From the UNION the best answer I got out of them was.. WELL You have new Job... You'd be best off just RESIGNING !!!! Yeah just what I want here after 4 1/2 weeks of Training.

Seems I made a move in a Right Direction for Once....
Well, I wish all of you luck with Whatever the Future of US AIRWAYS will bring you and to let you know I have a New Airline and a NEW HOME In ORD !!!

AND YES ..... All is well with Life Again.... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PITbull]

Colby,

Not sure what your grievance is about...but I make the assumption that you were INVOL furloughed, by your post.

Your grievance goes into abeyance until you return. It does not get withdrawn. If the union notified you because of your furlough status and the status of your grievance, they should have let you know that. If you spoke only to a volunteer and not a union rep, you just might get that answer above you posted.

You need to speak to a union rep. Your grievance can not be heard if you are furloughed. You would need to be back on the property for it to be taken out of abeyance. That's with any union.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Colby,

Not sure what your grievance is about...but I make the assumption that you were INVOL furloughed, by your post.

Your grievance goes into abeyance until you return. It does not get withdrawn. If the union notified you because of your furlough status and the status of your grievance, they should have let you know that. If you spoke only to a volunteer and not a union rep, you just might get that answer above you posted.

You need to speak to a union rep. Your grievance can not be heard if you are furloughed. You would need to be back on the property for it to be taken out of abeyance. That's with any union.

Could it be about conflict of interest with the new job? Not sure how that works on a furlough

 

[ktflyhome]

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone much cares about furloughees. You are just out there, but not really of much interest to the company or the union. You are not working in the company anylonger, yet you are required to pay union dues to keep your "good status". When you go on voluntary or involuntary furlough, every thing "freezes" and your record remains just as it was when ever you are called or come back. Whether it be 6 months or 3 years. All you really maintain is "Seniority".

If you were on dependability when you left, you are on it when you come back. You also lose vacation. If you had 5 sick calls 2 years ago, you have 5 sick calls when you return.

I wish Colby the very best. Hope you prosper and are happy....Colby.

 

[mweiss]

So, lemme see if I get this straight...they pay dues, and all they get for their money is the right to keep their seniority??? This is the same game that municipal governments play with hotel and car rental taxes...make the people who can't vote pay for services they don't receive. :down:

 

[Bear96]

mweiss and PineyBob,

Maybe I too am not understanding, but I think you are really making a big deal out of what is not a big deal. If you are on furlough, and you have a grievance pending, since you are on "inactive" status until you return, once you return from furlough, you can have your grievance heard. Until then, everything is just "frozen." What "union support" do you need if you are not working? (And BTW you don't pay union dues if you are on furlough except by choice.)

I think most F/As would actually prefer that, rather than being told you HAVE to come to the airport in the middle of your furlough to have your grievance heard, which could be inconvenient at the least if you are working at another job during your furlough or are a commuter and aren't even in the same city.

Now, I have no idea what happened here with Colby (I didn't really understand the post), and maybe it is different at U compared to how AFA works at UA. But if you are facing a termination, it may be BETTER to not have your hearing right away.

And, BTW, if a union rep really did say a F/A would be better off resigning than fighting it, then it is most likely a pretty hopeless case. (Colby I am not saying this applies to you, but I am speaking generally here.) Funny how usually unions are criticized for fighting to keep people employed who really should be fired, but in the cases where the union recognizes it is not worth the battle and advises an employee just resign, again they are criticized by those who want to see the evil in unions, no matter what... they just can't win with some people.

PB, not sure what you mean by a resolution putting you high enough on the seniority list to keep your job???

 

[mweiss]

(And BTW you don't pay union dues if you are on furlough except by choice.)

I'm confused by this comment. Why would you choose to pay money to the union if you don't have to? What would you get in return?

If you are on furlough, and you have a grievance pending, since you are on "inactive" status until you return, once you return from furlough, you can have your grievance heard. Until then, everything is just "frozen." What "union support" do you need if you are not working?

What if you got furloughed and weren't supposed to be? It'd be nice to have the union fix that...

I think most F/As would actually prefer that, rather than being told you HAVE to come to the airport in the middle of your furlough to have your grievance heard, which could be inconvenient at the least if you are working at another job during your furlough or are a commuter and aren't even in the same city.

Or, perhaps, you could have the choice of whether the grievance is heard during your furlough.

Funny how usually unions are criticized for fighting to keep people employed who really should be fired, but in the cases where the union recognizes it is not worth the battle and advises an employee just resign, again they are criticized by those who want to see the evil in unions, no matter what... they just can't win with some people.

I hope that you're not suggesting that my stance matches that statement. My only criticism here is regarding paying dues while on furlough.

 

[ktflyhome]

Bear: I took VF twice. Each time my union dues were covered for the first 3 months. Thereafter I had to pay my dues each month on my own to keep "in good faith". I know this for a fact, because I got behind and got sent a letter from AFA wanting 3 months worth of dues to keep myself in"good faith".

So I would suspect...but do not know for sure, that whether voluntairliy or non-voluntairly the same rule would apply.

Maybe Pitbull can clarify this for all.

 

[ktflyhome]

BTW: I seem to recall that not paying Union Dues could be grounds for dismissal, so I quickly put the "Red light" on my front porch. I paid the dues the next day.

 

[PSA1979]

According to the AFA Constitution and By Laws Section V.J.2 " A member on voluntary furlough status has a regular dues obligation for the first ninety (90) days."

KT if you paid for longer than that, you didn't have to and only did so voluntarily.

 

[ktflyhome]

According to the AFA Constitution and By Laws Section V.J.2 " A member on voluntary furlough status has a regular dues obligation for the first ninety (90) days."

KT if you paid for longer than that, you didn't have to and only did so voluntarily.

I did not pay for the first 90 days on my furlough. I then received a BILL from AFA for dues for the next 3 months. I got letters continually, stating that I owed 3 months AFA dues and was now considered to be "IN BAD FAITH" with the Union. I subsequently mailed them a check for $117.00. Yet, they have failed to mail me any kind of info or Union card. This has been over a year now. Go figure. <_<

 

[Dea Certe]

Oh PineyBob!

Don't poke Pitbull with a stick. It isn't nice and I expect better from you, young man!

As far as I know, AFA has always charged for the first 90 days of any leave. I don't know why it's 90 days, could be totally arbitrary.

Why Colby got called in, we don't know. Pure speculation on my part might be s/he took another job with an airline that required her/his resignation from US Airways. Could be a phone call was made to check a reference.

Why Colby didn't get more help or information from AFA, we don't know. Remember there's always two sides to any story. This is mine and I'm sticking to it.

Dea

 

[mweiss]

Don't poke Pitbull with a stick.

You kidding? It's the most entertainment we tend to get around these parts!

 

[Light Years]

Only voluntary furloughees have to pay the union dues for 90 days. Invols, thankfully, do not.

As far as Colby's situation, the advice given may have been the best, although not really protocol. The union would surely have gone to bat for whatever the situation was, but only after C became active at US again (at MAA). Colby had another airline job lined up (also AFA) and would likely have to risk leaving that one, or at least disrupting it, only to come back and see how the case with US turns out.

The union rep (it may have been a volunteer who just answers phones) may have personally thought it wasnt worth the risk of losing both jobs, or that the case was a big enough deal that resigning was in C's best interest. Again, that was most likely the opinion of someone personally and not the stance of the AFA. The AFA will defend you no matter what.

I wish Colby the best of luck at the new company... If you're reading this, I'm buying you a drink if I ever come across you on a layover!!!

 

[Bear96]

But suppose I had a grievence that was seniority related. If I win my grievence and I move up on the list far enough I am not furloughed.

But if I lose I am furloughed. Or in this case perhaps furloughed prior to winning a successful grievence and retain employment.

I can't really think of any type of grievance that results in you getting more seniority as a resolution, except maybe for some really bizarre cases where there is a typo on the seniority list or something???

Maybe the unions you are familiar with are different, but AFA grievances typically (as in, hardly ever) do not result in people moving up or down the seniority list. 99.9% of the AFA grievances have to do with being terminated for some reason (and if successful, the F/A gets to keep their job), or interpretation of some contractual scheduling or work-rule provision in the contract. You don't get awarded seniority somehow for either of those. If this is one of those one-in-a-million grievances that would result in a seniority adjustment, I am sure if that were an issue it would be resolved for the reasons you state. (Your union boogeyman paranoia is really strange.)

As to what we get for union dues, I feel the work of AFA over the decades has brought this job to a level we never would have achieved otherwise, in terms of pay, working conditions (safety), benefits, and work rules. It has definitely been money well spent. Something I don't expect someone from outside the industry to really understand.

But, you are correct that AFA is now losing touch with some of its members. This is what is sparking the current drive for an independent F/A union at UAL.


kt,

You should have done more homework about your dues if you feel you were being improperly charged. There is no such thing as "in good faith" status. There is "good standing" as a status. If you are on VF, or any other type of extended leave of absence, you only need to pay dues for 90 days, as has been mentioned; after that you are still a member in good standing, you are just "inactive." Invol furloughs do not have to pay any dues, as far as I am aware. If you received a bill somehow, you should have straightened it up with your AFA office. However, some people elect to continue to pay dues.


Mweiss,

The reason some people elect to continue to pay dues beyond the 90 days on VF is to be able to vote in any contract ratifications or elections for office that come up during that time.

I don't know what you mean by getting furloughed when you weren't "supposed" to be. If you are below the seniority cut-off, you are furloughed. Pretty simple. I don't think there are any disputes ongoing about someone claiming they were furloughed when they weren't supposed to be. If there is something like that out there, it would be easy to prove and an easy fix-- no one would say "too bad;" it would simply be resolved.

(Really, I think you and PB are really getting paranoid about unions and trying to come up with really unrealistic scenarios! The things you seem to be concerned about just don't happen in the "real world," and if they did, somehow we would find a way to deal with them-- F/As are pretty creative people, you know!)