Agreement Reached?

[HogDriver]

Since I am now one of those pilots that will be working under this agreement, I think I can shed some light on this subject. First of all, yes this pay rate schedule sucks when you compare it to mainline wages, which we all were paid prior to furlough. Thanks to years of second class status affored to the regional carriers, RJ flyers and wholly owneds by ALPA, the starting point for establishing a pay scale for the EMB-170 was already very low. I was one of the mainline pilots that saw the handwriting on the wall years ago, that if we did not intigrate pay and beenies for the RJ guys up into a fair scale with mainline, then it would be used to whip saw our entire industry down to new lows. This as come to fruition. Just wait until mainline decides to buy the 190/195 which has over 100 seats, to replace the 737 fleet. They can now threaten to chop the fleet and send the 190's to MDA for maybe $60-65 per hour Capts., or impliment that pay rate on mainline....using the new low 170 rates as a starting point. And heck...if mainline is only paying $65 per hour for the 100 seat 190....why not lower the Airbus rates more into line with that?
You can see how this has come into play, and I have not even mentioned the out sourcing of our flying to scumbag operators like Mesa, which also whip saws our wages down.

So why does a guy like me with 18 years in this business come back into such a low paying mess? One reason is I am a professional pilot and I love what I do....it is what I spent my young life training for and I am damn good at it. Not everyone can do what we do, nor would they put up with all the crap it takes just to get to do it....school after school....physicals.....tests...checkrides.

The other reason I came back....because there is a long history of pilots in this profession that came before me...fought the good fights....won and lost battles and took this career from a dangerous thrill seeker barnstorming side show, flying mail at night and dying by the score, and turned into one of the most admired, safe and lucrative professions in the world. There is a long line of great pilots that put their whole career on the line to make the job safe and fair. Right now we are in a position of weakness.....we are divided (haves and have nots)....disorganized (mainline vs. RJs).....struggling (in or near bankruptcy)...and decimated (10,000 pilots on the street fighting for the same jobs). Not exaclty a great position to be in to call the shots when it comes to crap pay and beenies. But that will not last for ever. I, for one, plan to continue the good fight. ALPA needs to get it's collective crap together and completely rethink the way we do business. It is wrong to have such a huge gap between a Capt. flying for $280k per year when there are other Capt.s making $50K. Both are demanding jobs....both are responsible for millions of dollars of machines....and countless lives. Is there a revenue making difference...of course...should there be pay differences...absolutly. But the old days of RJs being a stepping stone to the majors and only a temporary low pay job are long gone. They need to be seemlessly intigrated into a fair climbing scale with mainline. It will mean a total change in the union's outlook...but it needs to happen....or we will forever be divided....and weak.

So right now....things are pretty bad here at poor old USAirways. It might never pull out of the nose dive it is in, but we pilots have sure given them more than enough to get it flying right. The cost advantage at MDA to operate will be huge. Everyone is at 1st year pay (F/Os at 5th year cap out), and the revenue possibilities are great IF those bone heads in the Crystal Palace can get THEIR crap together. But if they can.....and we survive...and God forbide actually make some profit......you can damn well plan on a few of us fighters getting in there and correcting the givebacks we have handed them now.

I, for one, feel it is the good fight.

 

[Bluestreaking]

Sorry to burst your bubble but a Comair CA doesn't make $116,000 a yr. The highest pay rate they have on the CRJ 700 is $108.71 for a 18yr CA. That means if that pilot flew 900 hrs a yr (more then average) he would earn $97,839. Since there are almost no pilots at Comair making this wage lets look at the 5 yr rate of $68.01 or $61,209 a yr flying 900 hrs. Not exactly TWICE the MDA rates.
That said, I was hoping the U MEC could raise the bar a little in regards to large regional jet pay and that he did not. -Cape

The 5 year CRJ 700 captain rate at Comair is $72.06 per hour. It's kind of hard to raise the bar when the pukes at Mesa have set it so low! ($60.68 per hour)

 

[michael707767]

As of June this year, the top CMR pay rate on the RJ70 will be 113.12 an hour. In 05 it goes to 118.22 an hour. There are many pilots at CMR who top 1000 hours per year of pay, especially the senior most who have the same years of service that our E-170 captains will have. Ok, so its not exactly half of what CMR pays, but its damm close. Remember the pay at MAA is capped at 58k per year, so many will make less than that. No matter how you want to spin it, the MAA agreement sucks and is an embarrasment for ALPA and the U MEC.

 

[Capecod]

Sorry to burst your bubble but a Comair CA doesn't make $116,000 a yr. The highest pay rate they have on the CRJ 700 is $108.71 for a 18yr CA. That means if that pilot flew 900 hrs a yr (more then average) he would earn $97,839. Since there are almost no pilots at Comair making this wage lets look at the 5 yr rate of $68.01 or $61,209 a yr flying 900 hrs. Not exactly TWICE the MDA rates.
That said, I was hoping the U MEC could raise the bar a little in regards to large regional jet pay and that he did not. -Cape

The 5 year CRJ 700 captain rate at Comair is $72.06 per hour. It's kind of hard to raise the bar when the pukes at Mesa have set it so low! ($60.68 per hour)

And why don't you tell us all what the 5 yr. pay rate for a CRJ 700 CA is a the all mighty PSA? -Cape

 

[Bluestreaking]

And why don't you tell us all what the 5 yr. pay rate for a CRJ 700 CA is a the all mighty PSA? -Cape

The current PSA 5 year CRJ 200 Captain rate is $62.09 per hour. Our CRJ 700 rates haven't been negotiated yet, but I would think they would be about a $5-$7 raise.

 

[BlackOps]

$58 Grand to fly a 70 seat RJ?

Nothing like mainline brothers and sisters stabbing their bretheren in the back.

I know a ASA guy who easily made over $105,000 last year.

Nothing like the mainline negotiating committee sticking a $58K job in the face of some poor bast-rd who was a 73 Captain, with a hire date of 1998.... now that is some union love!

 

[furlopro]

Autofixer, I have 20 years of major airline flying. No jail time. How much can I start at working for you. Can you help save us from those horrid MDA wages?

 

[fatherabraham]

a320 driver,

Your post is so right. With all the complaints usair employees have...the eternal bashing/jealosy should stop against the rank and file pilot who has endured much and unlike other employee groups your group has to lead first with all the monday morning quarter backing to follow. I will be the first to say Thanks to the pilot group.


Hogdriver,

You are da MAN. I predict that the pendulum will swing back and HEROS ( hog drivers) like you will prevail. What a great post! It is comforting for me and my family to know PROS like you are in the driver seat. Best wishes and Thank You.

 

[the turtle]

And why don't you tell us all what the 5 yr. pay rate for a CRJ 700 CA is a the all mighty PSA? -Cape

The current PSA 5 year CRJ 200 Captain rate is $62.09 per hour. Our CRJ 700 rates haven't been negotiated yet, but I would think they would be about a $5-$7 raise.

Seriously,Bluestreak, what makes you think U won't put all 70 seaters on mainline? Do you really think you'll ever see a raise again? What about the Dash guys who make more than the new MDA rates? What's going to happen to them?

I think everyone flying in the U system will be asked to take more concessions.

In fact, right about now you're MEC is getting a phone call telling them if they want more jets(that's right, the Mesa dangle of growth vs. crappy pay plus scope) they need to take a cut, or MDA will fly all 70's and your pretty CRJ's are going to Mesa-minus the pilots!

Don't think it can't happen.

 

[Bluestreaking]

Seriously,Bluestreak, what makes you think U won't put all 70 seaters on mainline? Do you really think you'll ever see a raise again? What about the Dash guys who make more than the new MDA rates? What's going to happen to them?

I think everyone flying in the U system will be asked to take more concessions.

In fact, right about now you're MEC is getting a phone call telling them if they want more jets(that's right, the Mesa dangle of growth vs. crappy pay plus scope) they need to take a cut, or MDA will fly all 70's and your pretty CRJ's are going to Mesa-minus the pilots!

Don't think it can't happen.

Hey, you're probably right. It's hard to compete when a 3rd World Sweatshop (Mesa) offers to low-ball everyone. 87% of the Mesa pilots voted for your contract, so I guess that means that I can thank you personally. Enjoy our CRJs! :down:

 

[Winglet]

With this I really don't see why the U pilots need a union at all. It's just wasted money to ALPA. It's obvious that they'll agree to just about anything Siegel pushes across the table. As long as Siegel can keep 51% of the senior guys cowering in he corner, then they'll throw the other 49% out the boat, until they get down to two guys . . . then there's a problem.

Those are disgraceful rates, even by regional standards.

Hogdriver inadvertently summed it up pretty well, though. As long as you "love to fly" enough and it doesn't matter what you're paid . . . then you're going to paid diddly-squat. There are way too many pilots that will prostrate themselves to management in order to fly airplanes and it's taking the entire industry down the tubes.

And it's not just U that doing it.

 

[the turtle]

Seriously,Bluestreak, what makes you think U won't put all 70 seaters on mainline? Do you really think you'll ever see a raise again? What about the Dash guys who make more than the new MDA rates? What's going to happen to them?

I think everyone flying in the U system will be asked to take more concessions.

In fact, right about now you're MEC is getting a phone call telling them if they want more jets(that's right, the Mesa dangle of growth vs. crappy pay plus scope) they need to take a cut, or MDA will fly all 70's and your pretty CRJ's are going to Mesa-minus the pilots!

Don't think it can't happen.

Hey, you're probably right. It's hard to compete when a 3rd World Sweatshop (Mesa) offers to low-ball everyone. 87% of the Mesa pilots voted for your contract, so I guess that means that I can thank you personally. Enjoy our CRJs! :down:

lol

 

[boeing787]

Leave it to USAIR to screw all the mainline pilots before they start selling assets. Shame on you guys for such low pay rates. Pathetic.

 

[orwell]

Will the beancounters drive good, well-trained people away from these professions? I don't know about you but I want my doctors and my pilots to be among the best in their chosen fields.

One reason the airlines have got many employees by the neck is the love of aviation. But what happens when the need to feed and clothe ones family outweighs the love of ones career choice? Will we end up with a drastic shortage of pilots, mechanics and doctors in the future? Or will we settle for less than the best?

Or should we all just become lawyers, MBA's or CEO's?

Dea

Being the best in the field need not automatically be synonymous to being the best paid. Brutal as it is, it's what the market will bear that determines wages.

The reason for that? It's the fact that CONSUMERS - not "the airlines," as the tired argument you assert suggests - have got employees by the neck. The public thinks cheap air travel is a constitutional right, and the press gives B6, WN and their ilk free advertising 24/7. The government bends over backward to reward "start up" carriers and penalize the majors. When an entire country with an out-of-control sense of entitlement is rooting against you, the problems tend to transcend labor/mgmt.

 

[2ndtier]

Seriously,Bluestreak, what makes you think U won't put all 70 seaters on mainline? Do you really think you'll ever see a raise again? What about the Dash guys who make more than the new MDA rates? What's going to happen to them?

I think everyone flying in the U system will be asked to take more concessions.

In fact, right about now you're MEC is getting a phone call telling them if they want more jets(that's right, the Mesa dangle of growth vs. crappy pay plus scope) they need to take a cut, or MDA will fly all 70's and your pretty CRJ's are going to Mesa-minus the pilots!

Don't think it can't happen. ]

your most likely right!!!

then Us air mainline and alpa will sell allegeny down the river pulling piedmont in with it.