All US Airways mechanics and related.

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/10/2003 10:54:16 AM cavalier wrote:

too many complainers and not enough doers as i see it.ever try and hold a steward election?see how many want to get involved?how many actually took the time to see what they were getting for their $400 odd bucks a year in dues? always got a #### but i don't see them lining up at the hall to do anything about it.

While I agree that members should get involved explain to me exactly how far beyond the local level can members affect change. Most of the locals efforts are focused upon contract enforcement. That eats up 2/3rds of that $400, where does the other 1/3rd go and how can the members have an input into that? Even if they do line up at the hall, what can they accomplish? What rights are provided for them in your Constitution and Bylaws?

had a pro amfa guy in my face about the virtues of amfa.did his tirade for some 10-15 minutes,after he was done i asked if he didn't like the union we have...of course he said no.i suggested that since he wasn't happy.....and seemed so concerned with getting a new union here,why he didn't get active and try to fix the one he had.i asked why haven't you gone to a meeting and expressed your concerns to the membership as you have done here today to me? that was the last tme he ever said anything to me. so when this guy votes for amfa i guarantee you won't ever see him at any meeting for amfa...he proved that to me.
I have no doubt that you are right. Low turnout at Union meetings is not a recent developement. In fact unions had low turnouts even when they did well for the members. However even with low turnouts at meetings they held successful stikes and advanced workers living standards. Back then they used the low turnout as evidence of member approval, "they dont come because they are happy enough. Our successful strikes and job actions also support this." Now they look at the same thing and say "The members are weak and they dont take part. They are the problem and thats why we dont dare fight. " Years ago the leaders had the balls to lead their members into battle, despite the empty union meetings. Today, knowing that they cant be voted out by the members they blame the members for their lack of leadership. Could you see the original Jimmy Hoffa, Lewis, Quill, Mother Jones or any other real abor leader telling their members that they should give everything away without a fight? How much of a cut in pay and perks did these union leaders take? Are they going to use the same excuse as the executives that only the workers should take cuts, that they cant afford to lose their "talent" at the top?

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[tug_slug]

Still trying to stir the ole pot up aren't you Bob? Or is it that the your just now starting to fill the pinch of the recent concessions you just gave at AA?

I'll let you in on a little secret. You've just begun your little trip down concession lane once American files for bankruptcy (and they will file), things are going to get much worst for the employees at AA in terms of job security and your personal finances and you know what? There isnt anything you can do about it.

I certainly hope things turn out better for the employees at AA than they did for us here at U.

 

[pitguy]

I am told that the United Mechanics in Oakland and

Indianapolis did not get to vote since they were laid off and

that is how it passed too. They were sold out.

 

[Tim Nelson]

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On 5/18/2003 10:55:33 AM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 5/17/2003 10:33:31 AM delldude wrote:


how could this happen to THE AMFA?has the greatest union hit a major stumbling block?will the members wake up in time to see the error of their ways?stay ''tooned
www.startribune.com/stories/535/3888150.html 

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"Joe Tiberi, IAM international spokesman, said AMFA is hurting its membership by refusing to work more closely with other unions on concessions. Northwest is attempting to cut its annual labor costs by $950 million, and the airline is asking its AMFA workers for cuts of $173 million."

Isnt it sad to see how these guys go from company to company urging workers to work tegether FOR CONCESSIONS!

This is so sad.

Labor endorsing concessions.

Labor singing the corporate tune.

Instead of rallying together for improvements, which they never do, they are willing to put aside differences to cut wages and benifits.


IS THIS WHAT THE LABOR MOVEMENT HAS BECOME? AN ADVOCATE FOR THE INDUSTRY?

LETS STICK TOGETHER AND WORK FOR LESS!! 

 What a disgrace.


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Bob, Thanks for the time you spent writing and pasting your responses. It took me a while to read it all but it was worth my time.

I''m still amazed at how ignorant some are that think they can revolutionize the I''ll Ask Management union. The IAM constitution which is the union''s gospel was a product of the jurassic era. In the 1900''s, workers wanted a paternal structure fighting for them. However, workers now want choice, communication and shared information to make informed decisions.
So that, while the Regime''s constitution can be ''tweaked'' at sections, in the end, its character will remain one of a different era.

And unfortunately, it corrupts good people who get appointed. Wave around $100,000 and a retirement to an educated or uneducated ramper who most likely will never face an election challenge and you get a Yes man who is reduced to blowing smoke and thinking about a retirement home. Any of us could fall prey to that.

Tim Nelson

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/18/2003 11:27:46 AM tug_slug wrote:

Still trying to stir the ole pot up aren't you Bob?

Or is it that the your just now starting to fill the pinch of the recent concessions you just gave at AA?

I'll let you in on a little secret. You've just begun your little trip down concession lane once American files for bankruptcy (and they will file), things are going to get much worst for the employees at AA in terms of job security and your personal finances and you know what? There isnt anything you can do about it.

I certainly hope things turn out better for the employees at AA than they did for us here at U.

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Hell yea, why not?

Its a lot more than a pinch, more like an amputation. You guys started the ball rolling, the TWU picked it up and ran with it.

I'll let you in on a little secret, there is always something you can do about it, it just depends on how big of a pair you have.

Much worst, like your English?

Is your union going to call mine and complain again? Good luck!
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[Bob Owens]

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On 5/18/2003 6:39:59 PM Tim Nelson wrote:

Bob, Thanks for the time you spent writing and pasting your responses. It took me a while to read it all but it was worth my time.

I''m still amazed at how ignorant some are that think they can revolutionize the I''ll Ask Management union. The IAM constitution which is the union''s gospel was a product of the jurassic era. In the 1900''s, workers wanted a paternal structure fighting for them. However, workers now want choice, communication and shared information to make informed decisions.
So that, while the Regime''s constitution can be ''tweaked'' at sections, in the end, its character will remain one of a different era.

And unfortunately, it corrupts good people who get appointed. Wave around $100,000 and a retirement to an educated or uneducated ramper who most likely will never face an election challenge and you get a Yes man who is reduced to blowing smoke and thinking about a retirement home. Any of us could fall prey to that.

Tim Nelson


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Sorry about the legnth.

I dont think that workers ever wanted a paternal structure that fought for them though. Back then the workers fought, and the leaders lead, sometimes unwillingly. The famous Pullman Strike was a spontaneous event. Workers were willing to tolerate paternalistic leaders if they produced gains. If they did not, they were out. In any event the union leaders did not fight for the union workers, the unions leaders led the union to battle. The workers were an essentail part of the battle plan. Todays union leaders treat the word strike like its a four letter word. They think that everything can be accomplished at either the negotiations table or the legislature. If it cant be done there, as far as they''re concerned, it cant be done. As you said in your article they get used to the good life and are not willing to risk that. Its easier for them to work with the companies and the government than to fight it. Afterwards they blame you for not attending union meetings or giving enough money to COPE. They are afraid of their own members, thats why they resists efforts to democratize. They are too cowardly to fight and dont have faith in their own members.

 

[Bob Owens]

Cavalier;
Is your silence an admission of defeat or agreement?

 

[cavalier]

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On 5/23/2003 8:00:14 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Cavalier;
Is your silence an admission of defeat or agreement?

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I didn''t realize you or anyone cared.

Here is what I think, AFTER seeing Dave''s actions of snookering guys like me, which are MANY: Unless there is a labor revolution in this country the Daves of corporate America will be the new Kings and we the working man will be the servants. People at the top making millions while the working class is put in the streets only to hear people like Rush Limbaugh preaching to us to pull up your boot straps and make it on your own, start a business, that no one owes you a penny. At the same time millionaires running businesses have NO problem accepting corporate welfare and living as royalty. One day the working class will have enough and will rebel, just like my grandfather and his generation did who organized the teamsters local 149 in Pittsburgh as well as other cities. The rich don’t give two wits about the people who make them money, they only care about their golden parachutes and living the life we will only see in the movies or read in a novel. The middle class is fast going away in this country making socialism look better everyday. That is what I really think Bob.

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[N628AU]

One thing said here rings prophetic. It is very true that no one owes you or me a penny. You, me, and everyone else are at someone else''s will if we are employees. Only a strong, financially sound company will assure anyone of job security, "labor revolution" or not.

 

[pitguy]

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I didn''t realize you or anyone cared.

Here is what I think, AFTER seeing Dave''s actions of snookering guys like me, which are MANY: Unless there is a labor revolution in this country the Daves of corporate America will be the new Kings and we the working man will be the servants. People at the top making millions while the working class is put in the streets only to hear people like Rush Limbaugh preaching to us to pull up your boot straps and make it on your own, start a business, that no one owes you a penny. At the same time millionaires running businesses have NO problem accepting corporate welfare and living as royalty. One day the working class will have enough and will rebel, just like my grandfather and his generation did who organized the teamsters local 149 in Pittsburgh as well as other cities. The rich don’t give two wits about the people who make them money, they only care about their golden parachutes and living the life we will only see in the movies or read in a novel. The middle class is fast going away in this country making socialism look better everyday. That is what I really think Bob.

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Cav,

You said it perfectly.

I agree totally.