All US Airways mechanics and related.
- Thread starter jetmechline
- Start date
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On 5/9/2003 10:43:29 AM cat 111 wrote:
Are you IAM CLOWNS ready to give again? The IAM has done NOTHING for its members.THEY STINK !!!
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You sir ARE the IAM part and parcel as a due paying member. I bet if AMFA did get in, guys like you would make sure the same people were in the union office On 5/9/2003 10:43:29 AM cat 111 wrote:
Are you IAM CLOWNS ready to give again? The IAM has done NOTHING for its members.THEY STINK !!!
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SSDDHi Tim,
Actually, I''ve been as close to the action as you have, and I''ll stipulate to much of your recent post. Voting out an AGC is a joke; getting a bylaw that doesn''t have the blessing of the international passed is a joke; and dissent is the unpardonable sin - I am on every s**tlist there is at 141.
But I''ve been in this kind of war before in my life. You make up your mind to take the hits and abuse. You create situations, and wait for the opportunity to bring about real change. Actually, a dissenter doesn''t bring down the establishment by himself. The hubris of the establishment finally does them in. At this point, if the reformer has done righteous work, his voice will be heard.
Seen it, done it. Just realize it could be a life''s work.
Now, if there were a credible and viable alternative, I''d lead the charge. Nothing proposed thus far approaches adequate.
JM2C
Actually, I''ve been as close to the action as you have, and I''ll stipulate to much of your recent post. Voting out an AGC is a joke; getting a bylaw that doesn''t have the blessing of the international passed is a joke; and dissent is the unpardonable sin - I am on every s**tlist there is at 141.
But I''ve been in this kind of war before in my life. You make up your mind to take the hits and abuse. You create situations, and wait for the opportunity to bring about real change. Actually, a dissenter doesn''t bring down the establishment by himself. The hubris of the establishment finally does them in. At this point, if the reformer has done righteous work, his voice will be heard.
Seen it, done it. Just realize it could be a life''s work.
Now, if there were a credible and viable alternative, I''d lead the charge. Nothing proposed thus far approaches adequate.
JM2C
pitguy
Veteran
I here all of these negatives about AMFA being said, but can anyone say anything good in regards to what IAM is doing or has done?
When I look at their record I happen to think that is why we are at this point anyhow. I even have to wonder if all this farm out of Airbus heavy maintenance talk is their way of fighting the AMFA drive. They needed to just do their job and we would not have been wanting new representation. All of this negative AMFA talk by the IAM is working against them and making people on the fence vote AMFA. It is typical of this small mindlessness of the current regime.
I am a results person and frankly I do not see any reason to keep the IAM.
So please tell me why they are so good. Please.
When I look at their record I happen to think that is why we are at this point anyhow. I even have to wonder if all this farm out of Airbus heavy maintenance talk is their way of fighting the AMFA drive. They needed to just do their job and we would not have been wanting new representation. All of this negative AMFA talk by the IAM is working against them and making people on the fence vote AMFA. It is typical of this small mindlessness of the current regime.
I am a results person and frankly I do not see any reason to keep the IAM.
So please tell me why they are so good. Please.
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On 5/9/2003 3:40:22 PM pitguy wrote:
I here all of these negatives about AMFA being said, but can anyone say anything good in regards to what IAM is doing or has done?
When I look at their record I happen to think that is why we are at this point anyhow. I even have to wonder if all this farm out of Airbus heavy maintenance talk is their way of fighting the AMFA drive. They needed to just do their job and we would not have been wanting new representation. All of this negative AMFA talk by the IAM is working against them and making people on the fence vote AMFA. It is typical of this small mindlessness of the current regime.
I am a results person and frankly I do not see any reason to keep the IAM.
So please tell me why they are so good. Please.
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Instead why don''t you enlighten us all to the wonderful virtues of the mighty AMFA and all the glorious work they are accomplishing at the airlines they represent in these very troubled times. Please give us a full account of how they stopped the airlines they represent in their tracks by holding back all the concessions, third party work and job losses at these airlines. PLEASE explain to us all how the mighty AMFA has be able to steer through these turbulent times keeping its membership unscathed and fully intact; grateful for the salvation only AMFA was able to bestow? Explain this and I will head up a card signing drive myself to enable AMFA to deliver us all from these woeful deeds the evil airlines are inflicting upon their employees.
On 5/9/2003 3:40:22 PM pitguy wrote:
I here all of these negatives about AMFA being said, but can anyone say anything good in regards to what IAM is doing or has done?
When I look at their record I happen to think that is why we are at this point anyhow. I even have to wonder if all this farm out of Airbus heavy maintenance talk is their way of fighting the AMFA drive. They needed to just do their job and we would not have been wanting new representation. All of this negative AMFA talk by the IAM is working against them and making people on the fence vote AMFA. It is typical of this small mindlessness of the current regime.
I am a results person and frankly I do not see any reason to keep the IAM.
So please tell me why they are so good. Please.
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Instead why don''t you enlighten us all to the wonderful virtues of the mighty AMFA and all the glorious work they are accomplishing at the airlines they represent in these very troubled times. Please give us a full account of how they stopped the airlines they represent in their tracks by holding back all the concessions, third party work and job losses at these airlines. PLEASE explain to us all how the mighty AMFA has be able to steer through these turbulent times keeping its membership unscathed and fully intact; grateful for the salvation only AMFA was able to bestow? Explain this and I will head up a card signing drive myself to enable AMFA to deliver us all from these woeful deeds the evil airlines are inflicting upon their employees.
pitguy
Veteran
The way I see it is the IAM appears to me as if they have not done anything for Mechanics here in quite awhile and it also appears that they are not going to for quite some time into the future. I have not heard of AMFA making any promises to me here, but knowing how long the IAM has been here I figured they should have something to brag about. If United goes AMFA then I think it would behoove us not to be the only major airline Mechanics represented by the old paradigm union that may be going extinct.
So please would anyone care to enlighten me as to why the Mechanics on this property should keep their current union and not search for another?
Thank you.
So please would anyone care to enlighten me as to why the Mechanics on this property should keep their current union and not search for another?
Thank you.
I do remember a promise that amfa made, they made the promise if they won the election two years ago at UAL that they would staple all the US Airways mechanic and related to the bottom of seniority list.
And pitguy what do you think the IAM could have done against Dave and Dave? The company holds all the cards, you have to live to fight another day and try to keep as many people employed as possible. Do you actually think the judge would have ruled against the company in a contract abrogation?
The only thing the IAM is guilty of is lack of communication to the membership during the concessionary bargaining, but you need to look in the mirror because everyone out there is the IAM not five AGCs who represent us.
I see NWA airplanes at TIMCO in GSO being overhauled, I see NWA airplanes being overhauled at the old donaldson airforce base near spartenburg, sc, I see NWA airplanes being overhauled in Singapore by HIECO. Dont see a US Airways airplane at any of those facilities.
I see Alaska Airlines mechanics losing their tickets and the FBI siezing aircraft records and shotty maintenance by amfa represented mechanics causing a crash of an MD80 by pencil whipping the greasing of the jackscrew.
I see Southwest farming out 69% of their maintenance work to third party MROs, granted that happened before amfa took over representation, but I don't see amfa doing anything about bring the work back in house.
I see NWA envoking force manure to layoff another 1,000 mechanics on top of the 2,000 recently laid off, but no other airlines has envoked force manure.
I see amfa hiring anti-union, anti-worker law firm to represent them, seham was used to union bust at Varig and EL AL.
I saw afma use the union busting attorney to lose a major lawsuit that when you first organize a group that the status quo does not apply and the company can do what they want with their wages, benefits and work rules. See amfa vs ACA.
I saw amfa screw the Trump Shuttle mechanics and say we cant afford to do anything even though we represent you but if you pay for it yourself we will be glad to help.
I have seen amfa take a loan from NWA to keep themselves in business even though they were negotiating a contract for their members at NWA, seems like a conflict of interest to me.
And pitguy what do you think the IAM could have done against Dave and Dave? The company holds all the cards, you have to live to fight another day and try to keep as many people employed as possible. Do you actually think the judge would have ruled against the company in a contract abrogation?
The only thing the IAM is guilty of is lack of communication to the membership during the concessionary bargaining, but you need to look in the mirror because everyone out there is the IAM not five AGCs who represent us.
I see NWA airplanes at TIMCO in GSO being overhauled, I see NWA airplanes being overhauled at the old donaldson airforce base near spartenburg, sc, I see NWA airplanes being overhauled in Singapore by HIECO. Dont see a US Airways airplane at any of those facilities.
I see Alaska Airlines mechanics losing their tickets and the FBI siezing aircraft records and shotty maintenance by amfa represented mechanics causing a crash of an MD80 by pencil whipping the greasing of the jackscrew.
I see Southwest farming out 69% of their maintenance work to third party MROs, granted that happened before amfa took over representation, but I don't see amfa doing anything about bring the work back in house.
I see NWA envoking force manure to layoff another 1,000 mechanics on top of the 2,000 recently laid off, but no other airlines has envoked force manure.
I see amfa hiring anti-union, anti-worker law firm to represent them, seham was used to union bust at Varig and EL AL.
I saw afma use the union busting attorney to lose a major lawsuit that when you first organize a group that the status quo does not apply and the company can do what they want with their wages, benefits and work rules. See amfa vs ACA.
I saw amfa screw the Trump Shuttle mechanics and say we cant afford to do anything even though we represent you but if you pay for it yourself we will be glad to help.
I have seen amfa take a loan from NWA to keep themselves in business even though they were negotiating a contract for their members at NWA, seems like a conflict of interest to me.
Bob, would you bet your paycheck on that? US was first then UAL, AA, HA, NWA is next, watch and wait.
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On 5/9/2003 10:59:44 AM cavalier wrote:
SSDD
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On 5/9/2003 10:59:44 AM cavalier wrote:
You sir ARE the IAM part and parcel as a due paying member. I bet if AMFA did get in, guys like you would make sure the same people were in the union office SSDD----------------
Maybe. But if they did not like what you or the top leaders were doing they could initiate a recall. Can they recall Buffy? Can they recall you?
You are probably right about who would be in office but its not SSDD unless the members choose not to demand accountability. Maybe they wont, but it will be their choice. The one thing that AMFA does give thats definitly different than the IAM is accountability from top to bottom.
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On 5/9/2003 9
14 AM cavalier wrote:
It was the third time in 18 months that Northwest, the nation''s fourth-largest airline, has invoked force majeure. It took that step after the September 2001 attacks and again in March, citing the war in Iraq, when it was the only airline in the United States to invoke the clause.
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Seems the mighty AMFA is also up against corporate America and scoring the same results as the IAM....nil. But yet we hear the battle cry for the mighty AMFA to save our collective hides. I say it would be jumping straight into the fire at this point getting this new and supposedly superior union to represent U. Think people THINK and leave that foolish rage behind, AMFA is not the answer, an improved economy is the real answer.
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Yes but when the guys come back at NWA they would come back to full pay and benifits. On 5/9/2003 9
14 AM cavalier wrote:It was the third time in 18 months that Northwest, the nation''s fourth-largest airline, has invoked force majeure. It took that step after the September 2001 attacks and again in March, citing the war in Iraq, when it was the only airline in the United States to invoke the clause.
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Seems the mighty AMFA is also up against corporate America and scoring the same results as the IAM....nil. But yet we hear the battle cry for the mighty AMFA to save our collective hides. I say it would be jumping straight into the fire at this point getting this new and supposedly superior union to represent U. Think people THINK and leave that foolish rage behind, AMFA is not the answer, an improved economy is the real answer.
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Sure they had to take a hit, but thats the nature of the beast, its also why we have seniority.
pitguy
Veteran
I still have not seen anyone here attempt to answer my question regarding what the IAM has done for the Mechanics here. All I see is typical IAM style AMFA bashing. I am sure someone can think of something positive to say as a selling point as to why to keep the IAM since they have been here for numerous decades.
I also have to wonder if United goes AMFA and we are still IAM and if a merger would ever go through how we would end up. One would happen to think we could end up on the bottom. I think if United goes AMFA and we are the only carrier left represented by the IAM no matter who we merged with we could end up on the bottom and then out the door.
I also have to wonder if United goes AMFA and we are still IAM and if a merger would ever go through how we would end up. One would happen to think we could end up on the bottom. I think if United goes AMFA and we are the only carrier left represented by the IAM no matter who we merged with we could end up on the bottom and then out the door.
pitguy
Veteran
delldude
Veteran
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On 5/10/2003 8
11 AM pitguy wrote:
I still have not seen anyone here attempt to answer my question regarding what the IAM has done for the Mechanics here. I
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i think lavman hit the nail on the head on this thread when he mentioned all the different airline planes seen at 3rd party maintenence facilities,but not one US AIRWAYS plane.and you may counter not yet...but like i said. it also seems to me we have given back a lot less than others going down the same road as we have recently.i see threads where people complain about what they pay for health insurance per month at different air carriers,its alot more than i''m paying.On 5/10/2003 8
11 AM pitguy wrote:I still have not seen anyone here attempt to answer my question regarding what the IAM has done for the Mechanics here. I
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too many complainers and not enough doers as i see it.ever try and hold a steward election?see how many want to get involved?how many actually took the time to see what they were getting for their $400 odd bucks a year in dues? always got a #### but i don''t see them lining up at the hall to do anything about it.
had a pro amfa guy in my face about the virtues of amfa.did his tirade for some 10-15 minutes,after he was done i asked if he didn''t like the union we have...of course he said no.i suggested that since he wasn''t happy.....and seemed so concerned with getting a new union here,why he didn''t get active and try to fix the one he had.i asked why haven''t you gone to a meeting and expressed your concerns to the membership as you have done here today to me? that was the last tme he ever said anything to me. so when this guy votes for amfa i guarantee you won''t ever see him at any meeting for amfa...he proved that to me.
pitguy
Veteran
Thanks for the reply delldude.
Hopefully the IAM will not sell us out and let the heavy maintenance go like they did at United. I guess IAM workers will still be doing the work though, but it will be Boeing guys. So they will still be getting their dues money when the call back to laid off Boeing guys to do the work of the newly laid off United guys.
Hopefully the IAM will not sell us out and let the heavy maintenance go like they did at United. I guess IAM workers will still be doing the work though, but it will be Boeing guys. So they will still be getting their dues money when the call back to laid off Boeing guys to do the work of the newly laid off United guys.
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