Alpa Orders Nc To Obtain New Agreement

[USA320Pilot]

Do I like what is happening at US Airways? No, of course not.

I am simply the messenger and it’s the creditors and the ATSB that are demanding the changes.

In regard to out of seniority furloughs, it's in the company's September 20 proposal due to the failure of the RC4 and their supporters like Mwereplanes. If airplanes are parked the company cannot afford to re-train the pilot force. Why is Mwereplanes so upset? Because he is a B767 Captain with no other options who could be furloughed without severance pay.

That's tough and I empathize with his potential unemployment, but it's due to the actions of the RC4, period.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

In the IAM 1113e letters there is NO Out of Seniority furloughs.

Until you see it in black and white in the ALPA 1113e letter it is just speculation and propaganda.

 

[usfliboi]

Sounds like thres gonna be alot of Black and Whites papers youre gonna be trying to comprehend soon.... Chin Up Things will be just fine

 

[mwereplanes]

Do I like what is happening at US Airways? No, of course not.

I am simply the messenger and it’s the creditors and the ATSB that are demanding the changes.

In regard to out of seniority furloughs, it's in the company's September 20 proposal due to the failure of the RC4 and their supporters like Mwereplanes. If airplanes are parked the company cannot afford to re-train the pilot force. Why is Mwereplanes so upset? Because he is a B767 Captain with no other options who could be furloughed without severance pay.

That's tough and I empathize with his potential unemployment, but it's due to the actions of the RC4, period.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="183510"][/post]​

Upset?

You haven't read a word I've been writing have you? BTW, you got the wrong airplane Sparky.

And, for the record, there is no provision for out of seniority furloughs in the company 1113e letter from Glass to Pollock. Guess you are wrong again Sherlock Holmes. Seems as if Glass is not quite sure what the men who represent the majority of pilots here are going to do with a TA that comes to the MEC for a vote. Eh? Are you sure there Sherlock? Can you predict what those 4 brave men are going to do with a TA?

Think maybe Glass doesn't want to stir the pot too much? Is it possible he understands what could happen here if they attempt to put guys on the street with 30 plus years? Could the resolve of 4 brave men who represent the majority of pilots at US Airways have made an impact?

Geez, I guess we'll know very shortly but I do know the 1113e letter did not totally stop the pension funding. Yet another understanding of what could happen here if they attempt a land grab? No, probably just Jerold Glass being a nice guy. You see, he has the best interests of the employee group at heart. You know, that 1113e letter did do away with that pesky minimum airplane thing.

It is tough but I do empathise with your impending reserve F/O status. Do I like it? Of course not. But I'm just the messenger. Well, actually you buddy Jerold Glass is the messenger. I'm just telling you what it means.

mr

 

[seeking the truth]

mwereplanes,

Do I detect no love lost between you and a certain other pilot ???

 

[mwereplanes]

Love him like a brother.

If only he understood what a backbone was.

mr

 

[funguy2]

World Traveller is right about Continental Airlines. CAL's labor savings advantage was initiated in its first bankruptcy of 1983, where Lorenzo halved most employees salaries.

CAL's turnaround began in 1995 when Bethune was hired.

The time between 1983 and 1995 was no picnic for CAL, which included the separate acquistions of Frontier and PEOPLExpress, as well as the merger of fellow Texas-Air subsiderary New York Air into CAL (in 1987, a 3-way merger of NYAir, PE, and CAL... Frontier has been acquired in 85 or 86 if my memory serves, as PE was trying to regain profitability). Also, CAL went through a second BK in 1991, around the same time as America West, when TPG got involved with both companies...

So, the moral of the story is that so far, US Airways is following the CAL example, of trying to only cut costs, and going into repeated bankruptcies. Doesn;t sound like a model I would want to follow.

By the way, I believe there is now a 3-strike BK rule. US Airways: Strike 2.

 

[funguy2]

In regard to out of seniority furloughs, it's in the company's September 20 proposal due to the failure of the RC4 and their supporters like Mwereplanes. If airplanes are parked the company cannot afford to re-train the pilot force. Why is Mwereplanes so upset? Because he is a B767 Captain with no other options who could be furloughed without severance pay.

Perhaps management should have considered re-training costs in a shrinking situation when they acquired at least 2 aircraft types for every mission (from the widebodies to the props). The fact that the company cannot afford to retrain the most senior, but Boeing-qualified, pilots is not a burden which should be bourne by the Boeing-trained pilots.

US Airways management (past and present) willing signed seniority-based pilot contracts. Furthermore, the seniority system is one entrenched in the airline industry, not only for furloughs, but also for scheduling, vacation planning, and stand-by travel.

The fact that US Airways can no longer abide by the contracts it signed over the past 70-some years is not the problem - or at least should not be - of the #1 most senior Boeing pilot. The company has been in a contract with this guy (or gal) since probably the 1970's to adhere to a seniority system. I hope that ALPA stands with this union member, who probably has close to 30 years seniority. If ALPA does not stand with this member, I would expect to see other airline pilot groups move away from ALPA, which would allow a 30-year seniority furlough, as 10-12 year guys/gals stay on.

"I am simply the [self-appointed] messenger..."

Indeed.

 

[Light Years]

Perhaps management should have considered re-training costs in a shrinking situation when they acquired at least 2 aircraft types for every mission (from the widebodies to the props). The fact that the company cannot afford to retrain the most senior, but Boeing-qualified, pilots is not a burden which should be bourne by the Boeing-trained pilots.

[post="183651"][/post]​

Aint that the truth.

F100, DC9
B737-200, MD80
B737-300, B737-400, B727-200, A319, A320
B757, A321
B767, A330
DH8, D328
E170, CRJ700

 

[luvn737s]

Retraining costs. You mean US doesn't own it's A320 sims? You mean instructors are paid on a per-student basis? You mean there are no fixed costs associated with a training department? How about pilots out on leave? Is requal training too expensive too?

Sounds like a death spiral to me. If I were one of the RC4 I wouldn't want to be an accomplice to such a plan either.

 

[BoeingBoy]

"It’s a myth that you cannot shrink to profitability in bankruptcy"

Well, much has been made of the "CAL example" in this thread. So my question to those who cite it as an example of "shrinking to profitability" is this: Exactly how much did CAL shrink before it became profitable?

Lots of talk about reducing costs, changing contracts, increasing revenues, etc, but none answer that one simple question that is at the heart of this supposed plan.

Now for the flip side. How many airlines have tried to remain solvent by shrinking? Names, anyone? And how many were successful?

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

HP shed it's 747s and DHC-8's in it's first bankruptcy.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I fail to see where 320pilot is gaining any pleasure from any of this.

dude is the messenger. That's it.

[post="183428"][/post]​

Then you don't KNOW the "dude." For him it is more like "glee." Greeter.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

This thing was going to 150 jets from the start. IMHO. As I have mentioned many times 320 will be a reserve copilot by the time his management cronies get through with him. Sad thing is, he will accept the position because that is all he can do.

As for the representatives of the 1852 pilots of PIT and PHL, they are far from being irrelevant. The plan is to see just how bad the "TA" is that comes back from the company. To prove once and for all just what kind of people we are dealing with. At that point you will see just how insignificant the 4 brave men are. Remember the MEC must vote to send any TA out for ratification.

GREAT post mwereplanes. A lot of people are missing the fact that the PHL and PIT reps allowed the negociating to resume with everything on the table...and will have a MAJORITY say in whether it goes out. This time, the company might think twice about negociating in bad faith...after all they are now quickly to stand before the the judge (the SAME one that would NOT cancel the U pilots retirements...he left that to be worked out between the company and the union) and ask that he negate contracts. I have said before, negociating in the shadow of the judge is our only chance. The thieves of U would have done just what they are doing no matter what the pilots did 2 weeks ago. That is the overriding fact. We all know the situation...this is our only shot. Best. Greeter.

 

[PITbull]

This thing was going to 150 jets from the start. IMHO. As I have mentioned many times 320 will be a reserve copilot by the time his management cronies get through with him. Sad thing is, he will accept the position because that is all he can do.

As for the representatives of the 1852 pilots of PIT and PHL, they are far from being irrelevant. The plan is to see just how bad the "TA" is that comes back from the company. To prove once and for all just what kind of people we are dealing with. At that point you will see just how insignificant the 4 brave men are. Remember the MEC must vote to send any TA out for ratification.

GREAT post mwereplanes. A lot of people are missing the fact that the PHL and PIT reps allowed the negociating to resume with everything on the table...and will have a MAJORITY say in whether it goes out. This time, the company might think twice about negociating in bad faith...after all they are now quickly to stand before the the judge (the SAME one that would NOT cancel the U pilots retirements...he left that to be worked out between the company and the union) and ask that he negate contracts. I have said before, negociating in the shadow of the judge is our only chance. The thieves of U would have done just what they are doing no matter what the pilots did 2 weeks ago. That is the overriding fact. We all know the situation...this is our only shot. Best. Greeter.

[post="183705"][/post]​

[/quote




Just found out that the RC4 met with Specter and Santorum in DCA. Santorum apolized to the ALPA Reps and the RC4 graciously accepted.

Santorum and Spector asked the RC4 if they all wanted to step around the corner and do a press release, the RC4 declined and said there is no need.