What's new

ALPA PHL LEC Update - June 23, 2007

USA320Pilot

Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
8,175
Reaction score
1,539
ALPA PHL LEC Update for June 23, 2007

Battle to Wage


Fellow Philadelphia Pilots,

We, your Council 41 representatives, want you to fully understand our position, which will not change.

1. We cannot EVER accept an award that does not conform to the ALPA Merger policy. EVER.

2. The Nicolau Award does not conform to ALPA Merger Policy.

3. The pre-requisite to negotiating protections into this award is ACCEPTING this award as valid. See number 1.

4. Acceptance of this award as being valid, in any form, will do irreparable damage to one of the most sacred tenets of this profession and unionism:SENIORITY CANNOT BE VACATED.

The future belongs to those who stand up and fight. There is always risk, but there is also reward. The reward we seek is the upholding of the last standing tenet of our chosen profession. The risk is becoming less due to having little left to lose. Yet some still refuse to fight; they refuse to say no, and they look to compromise.

Averting risk entails negotiating and accepting. Think more Airbuses than God can count, $100,000 Soft Landings, LOA 79, Restructuring I, Restructuring II, LOA 84, and LOA 91. One needs only to look back to the summer of 2004 to see how successful the strategy of negotiating was. Most recently, there was the reneging on profit sharing and stock promised in LOA 93. Remember, management never said they were going out of business, only ALPA did.

Fighting for principles entails tremendous risk. The generations of pilots before us built this profession by making and taking a stand. They suffered firings for union involvement and even loss of their lives in unsafe aircraft. The pilots of our generation are the beneficiaries of their hard-fought but necessary battles.

Our generation of pilots merely had to build flight hours and get the job. It was relatively easy. We have become so risk-averse, we were willing to give back all that those previous Aviators fought so hard for. Negotiating a fix to seniority will continue to dilute our principles and destroy the fabric of our profession.

Concern and action by you, on behalf of all your fellow pilots, no matter where you are on the seniority list, is what unionism is all about. We hope this is not an idea lost on our generation of pilots.

This is a fight too important not to wage; there's no compromise.

Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.

Fraternally,

Eric Rowe
Dave Ciabattoni
Jim Portale
 
Whatever.

Don't you east guys ever get tired of this rhetoric?

Junebug, you hit the nail on the head!

This pilots v. pilots bit is growing very tiresome.

Geezz...
I think Prater was quite concise and explained that the seniority list is DONE no matter what /east pilots do with regards to ALPA.
DOH was always a non-starter in an arbitration case and if the east leadership had bargained in good faith with the west, they would not be in this position now.

It is what it is.
 
Junebug, you hit the nail on the head!

This pilots v. pilots bit is growing very tiresome.

Geezz...
I think Prater was quite concise and explained that the seniority list is DONE no matter what /east pilots do with regards to ALPA.
DOH was always a non-starter in an arbitration case and if the east leadership had bargained in good faith with the west, they would not be in this position now.

It is what it is.

The east reps are fast becomming a disgrace! They get to keep a job, recall THEIR FURLOUGHD PILOTS at the expense of AWA pilots and poolies, for the first time in maybe ten yrs they get a profit sharing check, they get a more than favorable integration and DOH for the top 517 placing our top pilots below them at a 20% loss to their seniority, they will get the lions share of a contract and still you want more?!? You expect us on the west to pay for you as well????
 
DOH was always a non-starter in an arbitration case and if the east leadership had bargained in good faith with the west, they would not be in this position now.

It is what it is.

I won't say that East bargained in bad faith, mostly because bad faith is a really strong term. IMO, East simply chose to not make anything other then DOH (or longevity) as an acceptable result from negotiations and made a strategic decision to place all their hopes and dreams into a final and binding arbitration.

Litigation, including binding arbitration, is always a crapshoot because you lose control over your destiny when a judge, jury or arbitration panel makes a decision. That is why negotiations are preferred because you at least have a choice over which bad option you eventually end up with.
 
I won't say that East bargained in bad faith, mostly because bad faith is a really strong term. IMO, East simply chose to not make anything other then DOH (or longevity) as an acceptable result from negotiations and made a strategic decision to place all their hopes and dreams into a final and binding arbitration.

Litigation, including binding arbitration, is always a crapshoot because you lose control over your destiny when a judge, jury or arbitration panel makes a decision. That is why negotiations are preferred because you at least have a choice over which bad option you eventually end up with.

Exactly!
Which is why the east should have just bargained with the HP MEC and come to a compromise.
 
What, no mention of the Holocaust? These guys are certified lunatics.

ALPA PHL LEC Update for June 23, 2007

Battle to Wage


Fellow Philadelphia Pilots,

We, your Council 41 representatives, want you to fully understand our position, which will not change.

1. We cannot EVER accept an award that does not conform to the ALPA Merger policy. EVER.

2. The Nicolau Award does not conform to ALPA Merger Policy.

3. The pre-requisite to negotiating protections into this award is ACCEPTING this award as valid. See number 1.

4. Acceptance of this award as being valid, in any form, will do irreparable damage to one of the most sacred tenets of this profession and unionism:SENIORITY CANNOT BE VACATED.

The future belongs to those who stand up and fight. There is always risk, but there is also reward. The reward we seek is the upholding of the last standing tenet of our chosen profession. The risk is becoming less due to having little left to lose. Yet some still refuse to fight; they refuse to say no, and they look to compromise.

Averting risk entails negotiating and accepting. Think more Airbuses than God can count, $100,000 Soft Landings, LOA 79, Restructuring I, Restructuring II, LOA 84, and LOA 91. One needs only to look back to the summer of 2004 to see how successful the strategy of negotiating was. Most recently, there was the reneging on profit sharing and stock promised in LOA 93. Remember, management never said they were going out of business, only ALPA did.

Fighting for principles entails tremendous risk. The generations of pilots before us built this profession by making and taking a stand. They suffered firings for union involvement and even loss of their lives in unsafe aircraft. The pilots of our generation are the beneficiaries of their hard-fought but necessary battles.

Our generation of pilots merely had to build flight hours and get the job. It was relatively easy. We have become so risk-averse, we were willing to give back all that those previous Aviators fought so hard for. Negotiating a fix to seniority will continue to dilute our principles and destroy the fabric of our profession.

Concern and action by you, on behalf of all your fellow pilots, no matter where you are on the seniority list, is what unionism is all about. We hope this is not an idea lost on our generation of pilots.

This is a fight too important not to wage; there's no compromise.

Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.

Fraternally,

Eric Rowe
Dave Ciabattoni
Jim Portale
 
ALPA PHL LEC Update for June 23, 2007

Battle to Wage


Fellow Philadelphia Pilots,

We, your Council 41 representatives, want you to fully understand our position, which will not change.

1. We cannot EVER accept an award that does not conform to the ALPA Merger policy. EVER.

2. The Nicolau Award does not conform to ALPA Merger Policy.

3. The pre-requisite to negotiating protections into this award is ACCEPTING this award as valid. See number 1.

4. Acceptance of this award as being valid, in any form, will do irreparable damage to one of the most sacred tenets of this profession and unionism:SENIORITY CANNOT BE VACATED.

The future belongs to those who stand up and fight. There is always risk, but there is also reward. The reward we seek is the upholding of the last standing tenet of our chosen profession. The risk is becoming less due to having little left to lose. Yet some still refuse to fight; they refuse to say no, and they look to compromise.

Averting risk entails negotiating and accepting. Think more Airbuses than God can count, $100,000 Soft Landings, LOA 79, Restructuring I, Restructuring II, LOA 84, and LOA 91. One needs only to look back to the summer of 2004 to see how successful the strategy of negotiating was. Most recently, there was the reneging on profit sharing and stock promised in LOA 93. Remember, management never said they were going out of business, only ALPA did.

Fighting for principles entails tremendous risk. The generations of pilots before us built this profession by making and taking a stand. They suffered firings for union involvement and even loss of their lives in unsafe aircraft. The pilots of our generation are the beneficiaries of their hard-fought but necessary battles.

Our generation of pilots merely had to build flight hours and get the job. It was relatively easy. We have become so risk-averse, we were willing to give back all that those previous Aviators fought so hard for. Negotiating a fix to seniority will continue to dilute our principles and destroy the fabric of our profession.

Concern and action by you, on behalf of all your fellow pilots, no matter where you are on the seniority list, is what unionism is all about. We hope this is not an idea lost on our generation of pilots.

This is a fight too important not to wage; there's no compromise.

Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.

Fraternally,

Eric Rowe
Dave Ciabattoni
Jim Portale



Are these 3 guys actually USAir pilots or are they just some knuckle-dragging goons that are placed there by the pilot's union?
 
Are these 3 guys actually USAir pilots or are they just some knuckle-dragging goons that are placed there by the pilot's union?


The are REAL pilots and representating the will of their constituents.

ALPA National would just as soon see these guys disappear as they are thorns as far as ALPA is concerned.

The egregious Nicolau Award will never be implemented. ALPA NAtional will probably not overturn it, but you will never see the HP/US pilots flying as one group under the merged list.
 
N924PS's comments are dead-on accurate and the East pilot anger is getting maore-and-more bitter each day. I believe the only solution could be to keep the two pilot groups separate; otherwise US Airways may burn to the ground.

Don't underestimate the resolve of the East pilots, who had over 450 pilots at the last EC meeting.

That should tell everybody something about the East pilot resolve.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
Oh my GOD you all think that Mr. Prather was concise. Are you crazy the only thing that a Scab wants to do is cover his Butt and hope that D.P. will save his ass. If that is what ALPA considers a Leader oh my! resurrect Jimmy Hoffa. He stood for shoot them up and put them out of their misery, not sit back and let them live on life support and make them think that I care. If anyone of you guys both East and West are not frightened by the Video, you all in the end deserve the Cancer that will take you over. If you guys at AW feel so smug, don't blink, all of you will get it one way or another.
 
We'll see if the Philly girls live up to their vow to resign if ALPA doesn't overturn the award. Their resignations is probably the best thing that could ever happen to the US Airways pilots.
 
Listen water boy as in enema I will never resign for the likes of any pilot. I have 40 years and have barely met 2% that I could stomach for over 2 minutes.
 
Listen water boy as in enema I will never resign for the likes of any pilot. I have 40 years and have barely met 2% that I could stomach for over 2 minutes.


The "PHL girls" I think was a reference to the PHL pilot reps, not the FAs. I think it was an attempt 😀 at an insult.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top