Alpa Responds To Pit Tribune-review

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Eye:

When I went to UAL I was on terminal leave from the Navy oblivious to airline and union issues. We thought we were going for a job and went through normal interviewing, simulator evaluations, testing, medical examinations, uniform fitting, and training.

Unlike pilots from Express operators, we did not deal with labor-management issues in the Navy and were focused on other things, such military operations.

I left the Navy for UAL and then it blew up in Chicago. The good news for me is that I got hired at US Airways and I have had a better career, with higher pay, more tiem as a Captain, and more time off, than I would have had at UAL, so far anyway.

OK, I'll buy that while you were in the Navy you probably had other things to worry about instead of airline management - labor union issues. But, surely somewhre along the UAL interview(s), sim evaluations, medicals, uniform fitting, training, etc. etc. you must have become somehow aware of UAL pilot-management contract dispute? Are you saying that during that time you never turned on the TV where UAL labor problems were on the news, or read a newspaper article, or listened to the radio?
Call me cynical, but I just won't buy that "the 570" were using reverse psychology on the company (UAL) on behalf of the union (ALPA).

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Frankly I wouldn't [deleted by moderator]. Does that answer your question?

I think being respectful is generally a good thing. Differences in senses of humor notwithstanding from another thread. This board without PITbull, 700UW, 320, Eye in the Sky among others would be a most boring and tiring place. Frankly I miss Cav despite his slings and arrows sent my way.

You Sir OTOH, seek merely to inflame and agitate for no valid reason other than to annoy posters and draw attention to yourself. To me you add little or no value to the board. but as long as the moderators see fit to allow you here it's OK with me.

[post="251063"][/post]​

I am not sure but was there question that I asked that you were trying to answer? You might have to refresh my memory. But in question to your answer are you saying you wish I would die from same thing that is/was ailing you? All because you don't like me on this message board? I may not have agreed about you posting your heart problems on here but I never came out and said is wished you would have died or not recovered either. That has got to be about the lowest thing someone could do just because they might not agree or like someone or they just think someone is there merely to inflame and agitate for no reason. Glad I didn't have to stoop to that level. How does it feel to do that?

Don't blame me because you have the tendacy to put yourself in places you do on this board and I just happen to be the one to respond to those places. Its the old if you can't stand the heat saying.

Why do the moderators have to do your work for you? You already said you have me on ignore but you continue to read what I say and respond. Since the heat is constantly hurting you why not do what you said you already did and get out of kitchen and put me on ignore? Makes me wonder don't you really want to read my posts and not have me die?

As far as you saying you generally think respect is a good thing ...why don't you show that? You certainly can't say you are a saint on here can you? You are actually worse then me, when the time comes, at calling people names and trying to make them seem ignorant.

I don't care what you think as far as what value you say I bring I am sure there is at least one that agrees with some of what I say even if it just me.

P.S. after rereading your comment that I agreed with I am sorry I jumped the gun I really only agreed with the big mouth part not the part about you being "just lowly Sales Trainer"

 

[fatherabraham]

After reading the 570 story for 5 pages, I am in the corner of the 564.

Wasn't around to judge prospective pilot applicant motives and doubt many on here were. I do believe that most will jump at the opportunity of a major airline interview past and present w/o deep consideration of union going ons.

Bottm line, they did not scab. My hat is off to all of you.

FA

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I am just seeking to understand what the heck happened with USA320Pilot at UAL. I have to respect his story. I am neither defending nor bashing what happened 20 years ago. That being said, I think Vaughn Cordle is the biggest anal hole in the skies. No airline pilot (that includes you USA320Pilot) is qualified to make these "company" financial forecast comments in the press. You know why the pilot profession continues to go to hell? Its because too many pilots think too much like airline management. You're either a pilot or an airline manager; you cannot be both. Those that seek to be both are fooling themselves and letting down the profession. There is no sympathy for the company cockpit devil.

 

[PITbull]

I don't recall ever asking for your respect and surely don't seek it as 320 does with each and everyone of his posts.

Sorry if speaking my mind in the sarcastic way I do chafes at you and others on this board but I say what is on my mind without reservations. Wrong? Maybe .. Probably. But I really don't come to an internet message board to earn my respect do you?

[post="251059"][/post]​

You bring necessary perspective, regardless of who gets offended or not...tuff beans. B)

 

[ISP]

Although tempers have flared on this thread, I for one think it is one of the most informative threads that I have ever read on US Aviaion.

Getting back to why this thread was started... there was a question as to whether Cordle is in a position to critique US Airways.

I for one, think not. The man is a scab, has flown for 20 years as a non-ALPA member, and should be ashamed that he participates in the industry not only as a pilot, but as an analyist, especially since he did all he could to try and ruin ALPA in 1985.

On the other hand, USA320Pilot once again becomes everyone's 'whipping boy.' For crying out loud people. he did not cross the line in 1985! You can say he is pro-management all you want, but let me ask you this: do you have greater respect for a pilot who doesn't cross a picket line (in order to protect his colleagues against a major airline and their execs), or a pilot who works without a union for JetBlue Airways, being a slave to whatever the company demands of them?

This crap has gone on far too long. People may disagree with A320, and to be honest, I do as well much of the time. The thing that turns people off to him is all the nonesense like "PS - there will be more 'pain'." However, you cannot compare apples to oranges.

This board needs to grow up, and for those of you who choose to open your mouthes, be sure you are able to have first hand documentation of what went on in 1985. I remember back then reading ALPA press releases (my father was a UAL pilot), and 320 is right... the 570 (or 564 - whatever you would like to call them) played an intrigal part in keeping the stature of airline pilots God like for many more years.

 

[CapnCockroach]

Although tempers have flared on this thread, I for one think it is one of the most informative threads that I have ever read on US Aviaion.

Getting back to why this thread was started... there was a question as to whether Cordle is in a position to critique US Airways.

I for one, think not.  The man is a scab, has flown for 20 years as a non-ALPA member, and should be ashamed that he participates in the industry not only as a pilot, but as an analyist, especially since he did all he could to try and ruin ALPA in 1985.

On the other hand, USA320Pilot once again becomes everyone's 'whipping boy.'  For crying out loud people. he did not cross the line in 1985!  You can say he is pro-management all you want, but let me ask you this: do you have greater respect for a pilot who doesn't cross a picket line (in order to protect his colleagues against a major airline and their execs), or a pilot who works without a union for JetBlue Airways, being a slave to whatever the company demands of them?

This crap has gone on far too long.  People may disagree with A320, and to be honest, I do as well much of the time.  The thing that turns people off to him is all the nonesense like "PS - there will be more 'pain'."  However, you cannot compare apples to oranges. 

This board needs to grow up, and for those of you who choose to open your mouthes, be sure you are able to have first hand documentation of what went on in 1985.  I remember back then reading ALPA press releases (my father was a UAL pilot), and 320 is right... the 570 (or 564 - whatever you would like to call them) played an intrigal part in keeping the stature of airline pilots God like for many more years.

[post="251193"][/post]​

Here! Here! Plus 320's stuff is informative. A side benefit is all the entertaining stupid stuff directed his way every time he posts something. You can always count on at least 2 pages of venom. Now THAT's a hoot to follow!

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Here! Here! Plus 320's stuff is informative. A side benefit is all the entertaining stupid stuff directed his way every time he posts something. You can always count on at least 2 pages of venom. Now THAT's a hoot to follow!

[post="251197"][/post]​

That's where I can help out!!

Thanks for words PITBull I hoped there was one besides me. I think theres a place for you venom er perspective too.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

On the other hand, USA320Pilot once again becomes everyone's 'whipping boy.'  For crying out loud people. he did not cross the line in 1985!  You can say he is pro-management all you want, but let me ask you this: do you have greater respect for a pilot who doesn't cross a picket line (in order to protect his colleagues against a major airline and their execs), or a pilot who works without a union for JetBlue Airways, being a slave to whatever the company demands of them?

This crap has gone on far too long.  People may disagree with A320, and to be honest, I do as well much of the time.  The thing that turns people off to him is all the nonesense like "PS - there will be more 'pain'."  However, you cannot compare apples to oranges. 

[post="251193"][/post]​

He may not have crossed the picket line in 1985 but he has more then crossed a different kind of line in 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995.

You left out another choice how about a pilot that is in a union and being a slave to whatever the company demands of them?

It is more then his joy to see employees have pain inflicted on them that bugs people it is his holier than thou, never wrong, know it all and post over and over (like he trying to brainwash us) mantra attitude. Not to mention him posting whatever he wants and implying that others reponses are not worth reading by saying he doesn't bother to read them.

 

[High Iron]

Here! Here! Plus 320's stuff is informative. A side benefit is all the entertaining stupid stuff directed his way every time he posts something. You can always count on at least 2 pages of venom. Now THAT's a hoot to follow!

[post="251197"][/post]​

Well, that's 3 of you then; Such momentum. You're on a roll!

"Offense as a defense" angle notwithstanding, it still can't overcome:

1) His opponents outnumber his plaudits by a gigantic margin

2) He is informative the same way a week-old newspaper is to one who has just fallen off a turnip truck...for the informed he is a prodigious rehasher...albeit with a slant ( selective editing, analyis etc ) . He has also been soundly and categorically corrected in many many points...only to resurface and restate same when he feels it is "safe". ( this BB moves fast; Corrections go "stale" )

3) Though it may be less apparent to those who agree with his 'Stockholm Syndrome' philosophy ( or more likely, noted, though ignored ) he has proven himself to be a demonstrably, no ifs/ands/buts arrogant, self-serving, super-duper smug condescending JERK. There's just no other way to put it.

Can sombody be so commited to an ideology that they would excuse such faults?

I wouldn't. The ends DO NOT justify the means.

 

[700UW]

I bet he crossed the IAM picket line in 1992, probably helped out cleaning planes too, as you can see by his posts in another thread unionism means nothing to him.

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

No, I did not cross the IAM picket line. To bad you're wrong again, but what is new?

By the way, if you have the courage to answer the question, which union gave the company the greatest percentage more than the "ask" after their new contract was implemented?

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[700UW]

Did you fly during the strike?

If you did you in essances crossed the line.

Or were you one of the pilots who got paid to sit home because of the secret agreement ALPA made with the company to keep flying and not honor the IAM's strike?

The ask was $252 Million.

By the way will you ever have the courage to admit you are wrong and that your actions are a traitor to the labor movement?

 

[mweiss]

Personally I think overcapacity is a myth.

It's not. It's just that "overcapacity" in this context is an economic term, and you're trying to apply a layman's definition to it.

If we have over capacity then why is everyone of the legacy carriers running over 70% load factors.

There's the layman's definition.

Could it be that the real reason is bloated costs compared to many of the LCC's has caused them to lose pricing power and therefore tons of money?

There's the symptom.

The conditions of overcapacity are the same as the conditions of costs that are too high for the market. In other words, when you have so much capacity that you are forced to sell enough of your product at a loss as to cause an operating loss, you have overcapacity.

 

[mweiss]

The man is a scab...

And this means he can't possibly know what he's talking about because...?

...has flown for 20 years as a non-ALPA member...

And this means he can't possibly know what he's talking about because...?

...and should be ashamed that he participates in the industry not only as a pilot, but as an analyist...

And this means he can't possibly know what he's talking about because...?