ALPA Thread 12/30 to 1/6--ALL ALPA/USAPA discussed here

[end_of_alpa]

Can't wait to see the vote and if you fail then what??? More of the same dishonest tactics that you've displayed thus far?? Unemployment is in both our futures at usair unemployment and law suits. If you trust nothing else trust that...

Whoa...the sky is falling! More gloom and doom. Thank you great wizard! Got any facts with that?

Serving up more fear, uncertainty and doubt!

 

[EastUS]

Bad scene isn't it?? Solution, chapter 7 liquidation and we all go our seperate ways... Fate finally correcting what it should have done in 05 usair gone for good. Good luck in the new year...

Well...a hopefuly comforting thought; The world really doesn't revolve around you, and the sky won't fall, nor any corporation fail just because you didn't get your presents from St Nic.

You may now cease holding your breath untill you turn blue, because it isn't going to change anything.

 

[pilot]

Bad scene isn't it?? Solution, chapter 7 liquidation and we all go our seperate ways... Fate finally correcting what it should have done in 05 usair gone for good. Good luck in the new year...

That would suit me just fine.

Lakefield saved the airline, not fate. Not AWA. And not Parker. If and when the money people want this pig shut down it will shut down.

Luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

"What is my "real purpose"? What is it I "want"?" I'm thinking attention, and some sad notions of validation. I could be wrong...it's happened in the past.

"Actually, you and people like EastUS / Phoenix would make a fascinating case study for a psychologist." Well..you've cetainly none of the requisite professional training to assert any such "counseler". ...Makes one wonder somewhat about other possibly self-assigned credentials and/or expertise 😉 Btw: As horrific a notion as this may seem to you, and however laughable I find it; I've previously been certified as "sane", at least for the purposes of dealing with nuclear weapons...Not sure how much in the way of shrink evals you've experienced.

"You are simply, well, wrong." Whew! Thanks for clearing that up without all the fuss of actually engaging attorneys and going through all that "legal stuff" that you imagine all others to find so incomprehensible. No sense gittin' involved with any of that dang case law/precedents/potential outcomes/etc...I'm fine with you jess' 'splainin' it like ya' deed 😉

Seriously? How about actually arguing for your point of view? I'm interested.

That's funny S--T right thar!!! (I'm laughin even harder now!)

 

[luvn737s]

Don't you worry, now...USAPA can and will afford it.

Don't pay agency shop fees and see where that gets you. If you don't think you'll get terminated..think again.

2 Words, read carefully: PAST PRACTICE.

If the company didn't terminate all the deliquents (heh, heh) that failed to pay dues and assessments to ALPA, those who would be terminated under the U-SAPs regime would have ample evidence to fight for their jobs in court.

Keep swinging. You can make up your own rules as you go. Strike 4!

 

[luvn737s]

That would suit me just fine.

Lakefield saved the airline, not fate. Not AWA. And not Parker. If and when the money people want this pig shut down it will shut down.

Luck has nothing to do with it.

I guess you're lucky Lakefield's buddy Bronner didn't do more damage than he did. Yes that Lakefield was a genius, pure genius.

 

[luvn737s]

While I like a spirited debate as much as anyone, end of alpa's personal attacks seem to stretch the border of what should be tolerated by the moderators. Has the kornfield been leased out to make ethanol?

 

[EastUS]

That's funny S--T right thar!!! (I'm laughin even harder now!)

Understood 😉 Heck..I can't ever even note just the "certified sane" thing by itself without an automatic smile ...always made me wonder somewhat about "the system's" true functionality...😉

 

[EastUS]

While I like a spirited debate as much as anyone, end of alpa's personal attacks seem to stretch the border of what should be tolerated by the moderators. Has the kornfield been leased out to make ethanol?

A true tragedy in your mind that you don't actually run the world it seems :blink:

Happy New Year regardless 😉

 

[end_of_alpa]

While I like a spirited debate as much as anyone, end of alpa's personal attacks seem to stretch the border of what should be tolerated by the moderators. Has the kornfield been leased out to make ethanol?

I'll tell you what.... Moderator, take a turn to the past and review MY posts. The personal attacks NEVER started with me, nor did I attempt to encourage them. All I EVER did was try to provide a CIVIL discourse on THIS part of the forum.

Not that it matters to ME, but if you, the moderator would like civility...which I would CERTAINLY appreciate your review...especially lately...into the motives of Bear96 and her "false" claims and empty content.

This guy and the others are naive. That certainly is no crime..but Bear96 has motives that suit her own amusement
"designs" that do little more than fan the flames of uncivil discourse. Her "credentials" don't hurt me. I've revealed her for who she is (which isn't much) .

Besides...she's not the ONLY one that can sling it!

As for YOU luvn737s...I have NO personal issues with you. I know who you guys are. Pilots. But if you or your buds want civility, fine. I will GLADLY accommodate you. If you want to bash the others with unfounded OPINIONS, with nothing of substance to back up your opinions....you get retorts, based with legal confirmation from me. FYI.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Well I heard from a little bird that you are several hundred cards short so why do we just end the drama for both sides and file the cards so that way we both know 😉

Hey AWA320:

Glad to see you're back! really.

Is that "Little Bird" still talking to you? I guess so, you keep making all these profound predictions about USAPA. Oh well. Either way, glad to see you're still around. Happy New Year anyway. It's going to be interesting indeed.

 

[end_of_alpa]

2 Words, read carefully: PAST PRACTICE.

If the company didn't terminate all the deliquents (heh, heh) that failed to pay dues and assessments to ALPA, those who would be terminated under the U-SAPs regime would have ample evidence to fight for their jobs in court.

Keep swinging. You can make up your own rules as you go. Strike 4!

I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that you are unequivically INCORRECT! You will pay eventually. PAST PRACTICE is not what YOU think it is. Eventually everybody pays. The company has not had to terminate anyone because they eventually are made to pay. You can even, more than likely, cut a check at the hearing, but you WILL pay. If you do NOT believe me I suggest you speak to:

Beth Holdren
US Airways, Inc.
Managing Director, LR
Flight Ops
Phone: 480-693-8612
Fax: 480-693-1395
Co-Mail: CH-LBR

I have spoken to her PERSONALLY and here is how it works. (In a nutshell so I don't bore everyone like Bear96 who wouldn't understand it anyway since she isn't "amused" by the inner workings. Not to fear, she'll chime here as well to put in her two cents about something else she knows absolutely NOTHING about......HACK AND PROFESSIONAL ALPA HARPIE!)

The "process" is you are informed of your "delinquency" by the union via certified mail. The Section of the contract, the number of which eludes me right now but it has to do with dues check off and is already tentatively agreed to between the company and the union, which requires an even LESS stringent requirement in that the notice is sent to your LAST KNOWN ADDRESS and meets the requirements of "certificate of service". Then the company is informed and they send you a letter via certified mail as well.

The ONLY requirement the company looks for is DELINQUENCY. In short, if you pay yourself up and current by the time of the hearing, which is I remember to be 10 business days minimum after service by the company, they will not terminate you. If you go to the hearing and you cannot PROVE your paid up, you WILL BE TERMINATED by the terms of the CB Agreement. ( I have a copy of this...do you Bear96 or do you still wish to spread "harpyism"?)

Of course several letters may be sent to you to bring your account up to date, but that is up to the CB Agent. Now I am NOT implying that you couldn't make life difficult for the union. However, if it could be proved that late and/or missed payments could be attributed to a "scheme" of members to make life difficult for the CB agent then language could conceivibly be included in the CB agreement that addresses this issue in the form of fines and interest to recover the cost of recovery and late payments. FYI!

 

[Bear96]

The personal attacks NEVER started with me, nor did I attempt to encourage them. All I EVER did was try to provide a CIVIL discourse on THIS part of the forum.

Just wanted to capture that for posterity. I have a feeling it will come in handy the next time you post some of your "civil discourse."

 

[end_of_alpa]

Seeing as the east refuses to abide by the TA, I propose this: 1) lawsuit against usapa- now, 2) open a new base within a base at say CLT, PHL, etc. they could be CTL and PLH. Release all the east pilots as west pilots come in and take-over capacity, I would just love the new bases. Sorry for the personal attack but you guys don't listen to reason. Time to cut the losses.

Nice thought, but you can't "sue" an unorganized entity that has NO standing as a CB agent. USAPA is simply...well...an entity of SOME people wanting to organize a group of SOME people in the context of labor unionism. That does not incur liability! They have to get voted in first before ANY suit would have ANY legal effect.

As far as your SECOND assertion and....here is the absurdity of your argument....your personal attack or opinion could NEVER occur regardless of how angry and frustrated you are. To state the absurdity amounts to nothing more than a "temper tantrum".

So let's get real. In all honesty and in all fairness to your side of the argument do YOU REALLY think that would or even could have any remote possility of happening (that kind of whipsaw)? If you guys want to reason LOGICALLY, I'll be more than happy to participate.

But it has nothing to do with "abiding" by the "transition agreement". It has to do with the majority of EAST PILOTS VOTING for a "tentative agreement" with the Nicolau award in it. IS THIS NOT SO?

As I said in my prior posts, you can't NOT abide by a T/A unless AND until you can get the neccessary votes from the MAJORITY of EAST pilots which is greater than 1422 (see my prior post on this). In FACT the EAST has MORE voting power under the "transition agreement" because both groups are separate (1422 of 2844) vs. 2234 of the total combined number of 4466. In short, the smaller "majority" of the East overpowers the combined voting power of the whole 2234 total needed to carry. Under the "transition agreement", IS THIS NOT SO?

I can definitely tell you that ANYTHING with Nicolau in it will be a virtually impossible hurdle to surmount with at least 2000 of the East pilots right now! ALPA's own polling data is telling them they do not have those votes. It's the VOTE that's the impediment, NOT the transition agreement! So let's not confuse the issue.

As far as having the company "throwing enough money" on the table is equally absurd. If you have been watching the crew meetings on the US Airways web site Kirby has told you the company DOES NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY TO MAKE ANY AGREEMENT PASS WITH THE AWARD IN IT. It doesn't matter whether you and I believe it or not...in this case the guys that CONTROL the money believe it and that IS a fact! As long as the West and the East are apart on this or any other issue that divides the vote where the majority says NO....a joint contract cannot and will not go anywhere. IS THIS NOT SO?

The MAIN problem now is ALPA, although they did what they promised and presented the list...ALPA has solidified their position, backed themselves into a corner with their own policy and has NO WHERE TO GO BUT GONE! Especially now with age 65. Because the award potentially affects the "65" guys as much as those junior to them....on BOTH SIDES!

ACPC has said all the "good" things ALPA has done or is promising to do. Other than 75 million in the MCF (which, by the way, the tangible MONEY ALPA is "advertising" to the US Airways pilots has to be of greater value than the AGGREGATE moneys any possible contract will potentially pay over ten to fifteen years) which much of it will NOT come to us, the ONLY thing ACPC IS promising is one thing...MORE OF THE SAME. In fact the nice little ACPC "package" I got in the mail the other day contained NOTHING NEW.....the 21 December 2007 ACPC "shill" that's found for free here:

http://www.concernedpilots.org/DesktopModu...&Tabid=2912

along with the "outdated" Issue 1 "Point of View" 3 October 2007 from ALPA. Not only "OLD NEWS" but "flawed" news.

But here is where I think the confusion lies: A "vote" and a "promise", as many pilots, so eloquently I might add, would like to lead members to believe mean the same thing but they are NOT THE SAME!!

ALPA fulfilled their promise. They presented the list. As McIlveena says, in essence, "so what"?

IT'S THE VOTE, NOT THE PROMISE! And therein lies the confusion!

 

[sharktooth]

2 Words, read carefully: PAST PRACTICE.

If the company didn't terminate all the deliquents (heh, heh) that failed to pay dues and assessments to ALPA, those who would be terminated under the U-SAPs regime would have ample evidence to fight for their jobs in court.

Good luck!

"PAST PRACTICE" would only apply to practices between ALPA and the company and not include USAPA.