ALPA/USAPA East Topic for week of 12/10-12/16

[EastUS]

Please.. clarify that we fully agree and mean it in ernest, yet this is a figure of speech.

I'd say that the "feet to the fire" is very appropriate for any/all Q & A, and overall actions. A main point of establishing an actual Union, vs the sick joke that's the Alpo "association" of self obsessed politicians, is to be able to have straight-up talk between the line guys/gals and the union leadership. The west folks are naturally going to be an extremely tough sell at best..and for a successfull union to be born..everyone's got to be able to freely participate without the established Alpo BS = "ummm...er...well..we'll book a fine hotel for a closed session conference, draw max flight pay loss..have a few thousand dollars in catered meals..maybe vote Prater another limo...ourselves another raise, or pensions that we took from you...well/umm//err...and we'll get back to you...umm...well actually never..we're just liars/BS artists/etc as usual". There's really little collective "union" experience out west (fer chrissakes..one of their "MEC Marvels" has all of approx 1,500 hundred airline hours....what a pathetic joke) Their most high and glorious MEC chairman's naught but a totally failed anti-alpo organizer...who skipped town, and his personal supposed "convictions" the very first moment that it was in his best personal interests to do so, (John Mck: "Down with the evil Alpo King!!!..."Ummm/errr...oops".."i didn't actually ever have the charisma nor the brains to pull this off...SO:"..."I really meant/ummm....trust me now/this time fer shuuure" .. "up with the glory of Alpo and it's king!!!!")....and he's magically now christened a "righteous Alpoid" and "defender of the Alpo faith"......Pathetic's a wholly inadequate term for that clown...What's his true "platform"? = "I was too pathetic/too stupid/etc to lead ANY revolution..but..well..Alpo's great!!??"....I cannot think of one of your/anyone's Alpoids that I'd feel at all decent about honorably wiping my cat's arse with. They've misguided reasons to glorify Alpo = Nic/the Allmighty Nic/etc. Alpo's never given away their pensions/futures, nor have they lost much at Alpo's hands....YET. I'd guess that few out west can personally imagine any part of the BS we've seen as very likely happening to them over time's course. As a group: They don't have any aspect of "the big picture" in the main..and they're fully, and properly entitled to discuss whatever seems appropriate. It's their working lives as well as ours at stake....No offence..but: You can't ALL be morons out there....although I've fullest reason to wonder via these threads.

Honestly: Aren't all of you guys out west equally disgusted with how things actually are?. Outside of this pitiful chat/web BS...wouldn't you all properly like the consistent opportunity to tell me/anyone to shut their face up in a direct manner? Isn't it FAR, FAR past time that we at LEAST seriously talk about getting together as PILOTS..instead of merly Alpo dues paying slaves/idiots/wimps/dumbassess? As individuals? = we're but a minor spot of red ink on the balance sheet. As a true pilot GROUP? =...Fukk drunk dougie/his pimp, perpetually stupid "Second Lt" fromt he Blue Zoo..those idiots are corporate fantasies...WE make this place actually work...those jerkoffs couldn't likely park their cars well..even if not hopelessly drunk....Let's get back to a full measure of respect back!!!

Believe me..the more honest, heartfelt and even seriously emotional discussion about Alpo vs USAPA...the better.

Gents and Ladies....even if for a brief moment...isn't it honestly far more "fun" to wake up to any given day with a sense of Honor?..and be able to shave/make up/etc?..and, most importantly...a SMILE because of that? How about we start seperating those of "us" (love to fly/working pilots) from "them" (spineless, and aerially inept/pitifull polticians who've allready sold theri tiny souls, and our collective arses many times over, for their small Alpo merit badges, and great personal Alpo financial gains?) ..and THEN: Let's go after the pathetic likes of "management"..and gain some respect/money/etc. All that I've seen you AWA sorts do thus far is kiss the arse of a non flying moron "president" that clearly never saw combat, nor even ANY aspect of actual USAF ops...and I'd as soon have a stray dog pizz on as say hello to...As for your precious "Doug"..well? = Words just fail me. IS it even possible that you people out west really want to keep kissing those pathetic idiots' azzes? A moments' pause at least?...Fine: now let's go with 1500 hundred hour Wonders on your precious Alpoid MEC...an utter chameleoun who'll sell his soul to Alpo/the Devil if he couldn't get his way as any "revolutionary" Umm..is there much more of a "wake up call that you guys really need?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I really meant that I want to see the USAPA leadership's "feet to the fire." There can be no better confidence builder among line pilots than to have the difficult questions and uncomfortable situations addressed in a straightforward, no nonsense manner. PHX would be the best place for USAPA to hear those things from the membership. I was unable to attend the presentation in PHL on Monday, but my guess is that USAPA was preaching mostly to the choir. And while I am certain that the meeting produced much of value, there is no doubt in my mind that the true test will be in PHX. And I am confident that the USAPA leadership will be honest and effective when asked the difficult questions.

 

[Tiger 1050]

I was unable to attend the presentation in PHL on Monday, but my guess is that USAPA was preaching mostly to the choir.

And it was in their own chapel!!! No surprise to hear of solid support. PHX will be interesting if it does happen...

 

[Tiger 1050]

Gents and Ladies....even if for a brief moment...isn't it honestly far more "fun" to wake up to any given day with a sense of Honor?..and be able to shave/make up/etc? How about we start seperating those of "us" (love to fly/working pilots) from "them" (spineless, and aerially inept/pitifull polticians who've allready sold theri tiny souls, and our collective arses many times over, for their small Alpo merit badges, and great personal Alpo financial gains?)

I'd love to. However the stated goals of USAPA make it clear that I'd be voting to impose biased barriers to my career progression. I know you have a different opinion concerning these barriers and it is not my intention to rehash all that again. I know where you stand. So it comes down to a wait and see game. I welcome the USAPA leadership to visit us in the west but I can say that as long as they want to toss aside a list that was born out of the prescribed process then there is nothing they can say that will get my vote/support/dues... Although if it is as popular as you say then it is a moot point anyhow.

Tiger

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I'll show up. Can you send the one and only, inimitable bloviator WM?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Sounds like a diplomatic way to disagree with you.

Nice try. He said he didn't know anything about it. I've talked to Bud and I've been reading his updates on our lawsuit for five years now. He says what he means.

No difference. If they had gotten their seniority, there would be no lawsuit. Don't believe me, ask him.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Did you even know that our lawsuit against ALPA actually began as the APA suing Bud? It was subsequently realigned. How can we sue ALPA for our seniority? That doesn't even make sense. ALPA had no seniority to give us. We're suing them because they gave us advice while at the same time continuing to recruit the APA to rejoin ALPA. We also sued the APA but along with defendants AA and TWA, LLC they were dismissed due to statute of limitations.

We'll see if it matters whether they do. I believe that USAPA intends to represent all pilots, despite themselves and their industry destroying attitudes.

So... if USAPA intends to represent the West pilots then why is it their platform to have a merger policy that advantages the East and disadvantages the West?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Your argument makes no sense (zero, nada). If TWA pilots had been awarded their rightful seniority during the AMR/TWA merger, they would not have sued ALPA for not representing them. Bud sounds like a really bright guy, not trying to reason with folks that can't comprehend fairness, or even their own issues.

 

[exB717Flyer]

If TWA pilots had been awarded their rightful seniority during the AMR/TWA merger, they would not have sued ALPA for not representing them.

Well, duh! But if ALPA had actually tried to defend us against the APA we wouldn't have a DFR case.

Bud sounds like a really bright guy, not trying to reason with folks that can't comprehend fairness, or even their own issues.

You're right. Good thing that has nothing to do with me.

 

[Phoenix]

I really meant that I want to see the USAPA leadership's "feet to the fire." There can be no better confidence builder among line pilots than to have the difficult questions and uncomfortable situations addressed in a straightforward, no nonsense manner. PHX would be the best place for USAPA to hear those things from the membership. I was unable to attend the presentation in PHL on Monday, but my guess is that USAPA was preaching mostly to the choir. And while I am certain that the meeting produced much of value, there is no doubt in my mind that the true test will be in PHX. And I am confident that the USAPA leadership will be honest and effective when asked the difficult questions.

It is important for the proponents of a union to speak up, even in the face of closed minds, but that is not the issue.

The real issue is that ELECTED and ACCOUNTABLE leaders of a union should be available for the hard questions that every pilot deserves to be answered. However, ALPA leadership is hiding behind the skirts of a "concerned group of pilots" who are keeping a protective layer between the pilots and the ALPA "leaders" they elected. It perpetuates the perception that ALPA leadership is more concerned with protecting themselves than with representing those who elected them.

Pilots always thought less of National, but now even the MECs are hiding behind the skirts of emasculated lackeys, who drink the kool-aid and willingly suppress the normal order of nature where the elected reps work for the electorate, answer to the electorate, and represent the electorate. But under the ALPA order of nature the oligarchy pushes pilots out into the fray to take all the ill will and controversy like pawns who are expendable, while the royal family sits far behind the lines of battle and live to fight another day... err party and play croquet another day. This arrangement works great for the royal family but the subjects will find that all the promises and assurances voiced by the emasculated lackeys are of no consequence beyond acting as a pacifier to calm the subjects until yet another storm passes, and all remains unchanged.

USAPA leaders will visit PHX and be available for questions from those they hope to represent, which oddly enough "smacks" of representation.

 

[luvn737s]

If I were you, I would look for the USAPA road show in PHX in January. I certainly wish I could attend that one; I can't wait to see the video.

<crickets chirping>

 

[aquagreen73s]

And here it is:

(Merry Christmas to all, by the way! I'm pretty stoked because I happened to walk into Gamestop today right as the UPS driver was unloading five brand new Wiis. Talk about timing!)


December 14, 2007
Dear Fellow Pilots,

I’m writing to let you know that, pursuant to ALPA Merger Policy and the Transition Agreement, ALPA will present the arbitrated seniority list for the merged US Airways and America West pilot groups to US Airways management. As my representative, ALPA First Vice President Capt. Paul Rice will deliver the seniority list in person on Wednesday, December 19, to the office of CEO Doug Parker.

Almost three months ago the ALPA Executive Council voted that, under ALPA Merger Policy, there was no basis on which to overturn the award, that the list was final under our policies, that ALPA was obliged to transmit the list to the company, and that ALPA was required to defend it. Of course, both Merger Policy and the Transition Agreement provide that US Airways management cannot use the list without a single agreement covering the pilots of the merged airline, and I have reminded your management of this central fact (letter to Parker).

The two MECs have held recent and ongoing single and joint discussions about how to develop a comprehensive counterproposal dealing with all issues. I remain in constant contact with both MEC leaders and hope that the MECs will soon agree on a process that will staff an oversight committee, agree on a timeline to conclude internal deliberations by the end of January, and acknowledge that we are dealing with all contractual issues, including pay, benefits, work rules, career security, and the implementation of the merged seniority list. This approach can lead to a new bargaining proposal to the company. The seniority list – and how it will be implemented – is one of the pieces the company and both MECs need to begin negotiating in the process of attaining a collective bargaining agreement.

I believe that your representatives will begin the New Year with a fresh commitment to collective bargaining for all US Airways pilots, dealing with all major issues. I further believe that your MECs can come to an agreement that will be the foundation for a positive contract for all America West Airlines and US Airways pilots.

In Unity,

Captain John H. Prater
President

 

[EastUS]

And here it is:

(Merry Christmas to all, by the way! I'm pretty stoked because I happened to walk into Gamestop today right as the UPS driver was unloading five brand new Wiis. Talk about timing!)

It's cute that you found your little game...but don't stay up way past your bed time on Christmas Eve actually hoping for St Nic to show up

 

[b737fo]

It's cute that you found your little game...but don't stay up way past your bed time on Christmas Eve actually hoping for St Nic to show up

Nice try. Nic is no saint. Trust me on this one.

 

[EastUS]

Nice try. Nic is no saint. Trust me on this one.

Why?

 

[aquagreen73s]

It's cute that you found your little game...but don't stay up way past your bed time on Christmas Eve actually hoping for St Nic to show up

My kids and I have been having a great time. Ten hours...nonstop! I'll be getting a Playstation 3 for Christmas, but don't tell them. PS3 has much better graphics and more entertaining games. But "cute" is the right word for the Wii. It really is "cute." My girls really enjoy the Sonic games on Wii and my boy likes the Hot Wheels games.