ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[AAA73Pilot]

So, with a few weeks to go until the vote, here's where we stand:

1. USAPA has not divulged any specifics on their finances, only saying that they need $200 per pilot (or else, what?)
2. USAPA has not come out in support of a supermajority requirement to their referrendums which would help include the west
3. USAPA has not come out and stated how they will help those who would be unnecessarily subject to furlough because of the halt in progress that will certainly accompany a USAPA victory. But they encourage returning J4J pilots to file a card (why??)
4. USAPA has pledged to provide the US pilots with a DOH seniority list, which negates the binding arbitration, but fails to acknowledge a fallback position if that is unsuccessful.
5. USAPA has not announced any PHX or LAS roadshows, further alienating a large portion of their would-be constituency. Will this help them in any DFR suits that may follow a USAPA victory?

This is only a sampling of why pilots pondering a vote should set aside emotion and determine what is most compelling for them: real quantifiable gains, or the smug satisfaction that they stuck it to ALPA - now what?

Not exactly where we stand, only your interpretations. Some I can answer, some I can't.
1. I'll ask you again, what specifics are you looking for? Donations? Expenditures? Cash on hand? Cash flow, current or projected? Believe I asked you specifics before, but you conveniently chose to ignore it, so you post this same stuff again. As for the requests. If it was up to me I would send out a request every month, but that is me.
2. I am giving you credit for reading the update on the Constitution and ByLaws. So I guess you are not satisfied? How about sending your suggestion to Info@USAirlinePilots.org.
3. First off, the j4j pilots are on our seniority list. I think they are frozen until later this spring. You want to deny them their right to participate and vote? Why? Halt in progress is purely speculation. Besides what progress has been made lately under ALPA?
4. No need for a fall back position. I think that would take care of itself depending on the outcome of the primary position. Don't you?
5. We also haven't announced any roadshows in BOS, LGA and DCA either. Your feelings of alienation is because we are diametrically opposite of each other. Personally I am alienated by ALPA. What are your plans to mend the fences with us if ALPA should by chance prevail? Now this ought to be interesting.

 

[Bear96]

Why do you ask this question sir?

Why do you refuse to answer it?

To answer your question:

I ask the question because you implied back in post # 100 that referring to USAPA as U-SAPs is a personal attack, but you do not seem similarly bothered by those who use the term ALPO. (Maybe this group even includes you? I don't have the patience to go back and look.) The hypocrisy intrigued me.

I take it you aren't going to answer my question?

 

[nostradamus]

Why do you refuse to answer it?

To answer your question:

I ask the question because you implied back in post # 100 that referring to USAPA as U-SAPs is a personal attack, but you do not seem similarly bothered by those who use the term ALPO. (Maybe this group even includes you? I don't have the patience to go back and look.) The hypocrisy intrigued me.

I take it you aren't going to answer my question?

I feel sir that you should have the patience to go back, it might make you look more informed.

 

[Bear96]

OK, we will chalk it up as, "Refused to answer," and be permitted to draw negative inferences from your evasive response.

Have a good evening. Gotta go. The night is young.

 

[b737fo]

5. We also haven't announced any roadshows in BOS, LGA and DCA either. Your feelings of alienation is because we are diametrically opposite of each other. Personally I am alienated by ALPA. What are your plans to mend the fences with us if ALPA should by chance prevail? Now this ought to be interesting.

I think there is room for compromise but then again how would any of us know if one side doesn't even sit at the negotiating table. No matter what one thinks about the so called "steering committee" meetings, I for one hope some rational thought and progress is made without emotions running both sides.

Bring on the vote already!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Bring on the vote already!

Now that we can agree on.

 

[nostradamus]

OK, we will chalk it up as, "Refused to answer," and be permitted to draw negative inferences from your evasive response.

Have a good evening. Gotta go. The night is young.

I will always give a lot of credit to readers who have the patience to look back at previous posts and trust they will form their own opinions through study and resist knee gut reactions. These knee gut reactions tend to incite situations, where knowledge of facts tend to sooth intelligent conversational intercourse.

 

[b737fo]

The same could be said for ALPA. Alienating 60% + of the pilot group is also not good either. Your characterization of USAPA being lumped into all the other associations is pure speculation and uninformed. As I have said before, if you want answers, go to the source. Send your questions to Info@USAirlinePilots.org

Speculation is also comparing an organization that doesn't represent anyone yet to a union that has been operating for over 40 years.

 

[Phoenix]

How so?

Are you seriously arguing that the USAPA election is not largely, if not wholly, about the Nic award?

Dear councilor, What issue may be resolved in an election? It appears that there will be two CBAs on the ballot. The only relevant question that can be addressed in the election is which CBA does a voter trust to conduct representational duties best.

There may be many “issues†that caused a sufficient number of cards to be submitted in order to have an election. There may even be one that stands out above all the rest. However large or small the “issues†that brought about an election, the “issues†are merely symptoms. The real issue is trust in one’s CBA.

The election is about trust. Surely you understand the importance of the distinction.

If ALPA comes out of the ten-day-lock-down meeting with a “miraculous and imminent Nicolau solution†immediately before the election then some will have their trust in ALPA restored, and based upon that new found trust, will change their vote back to ALPA (Unless of course they are not persuaded because of the many broken promises of the past, or if they think the deal will disappear right after they vote for ALPA. The TWA pilots getting hosed when they trusted ALPA comes to mind. Each voter will have to personally weigh all the factors that affect their confidence in each of the two CBAs.)

As an aside, it should not escape a voter's consideration that any deal offered to or by ALPA (based on AWA or AAA agreeing to amend the Nicolau award some in an attempt to get a joint contract) could easily be an excellent starting point of negotiation for a subsequent CBA. So ironically an ALPA miracle bringing the two sides closer together could be an excellent savings to the CBA that would replace them in the election. So I imagine ALPA is in a quandary.

Perhaps the AWA blue ribbon team will be willing to bend the Nicolau award, and perhaps the company will reportedly be promising milk and honey for all. It might even be in the form of a hastily written TA. Gee whiz, if they don’t know exactly what their story has to be after polling the pilots about five times then they will never know what their story has to be.

No matter… the issue of the election is still simply which CBA the voter has greater confidence in. Using a one issue litmus test would be foolish. Looking at the preponderance of the data available would render a legitimate decision.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Speculation is also comparing an organization that doesn't represent anyone yet to a union that has been operating for over 40 years.

The beauty is, working with the APA guys and others, we'll be able to establish the best union possible. Even if the west refuses to participate.

 

[b737fo]

The beauty is, working with the APA guys and others, we'll be able to establish the best union possible. Even if the west refuses to participate.

West participation is really probably based on how the so called "majority" handles the elephant in the room that is an arbitration descision on seniority. Good luck to us all.

 

[700UW]

The beauty is, working with the APA guys and others, we'll be able to establish the best union possible. Even if the west refuses to participate.

Ask AA and Judge Kendal about that, $45 million fine, part of it forgiven to force APA to take concessions when AA was not in bankruptcy.

And ask the former TWA Pilots how good APA was to them, oh wait never mind, you want to staple HP Pilots to the bottom.

 

[fatherabraham]

aaa73PILOT,

Thx for trying to be logical. With this gang you are wasting your time. You have precisely pointed out thier false motives to no avail.
Years ago i tried and came to the conclusion that seeing below is preferable. If you did not reply to thier nonsense my screen would even be better.


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FA

 

[AAA73Pilot]

aaa73PILOT,

Thx for trying to be logical.
FA

Sorry for cluttering up your screen.

I know it will do very little good, but I have to try. A lot of us on the east side are really not emotion driven.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ask AA and Judge Kendal about that, $45 million fine, part of it forgiven to force APA to take concessions when AA was not in bankruptcy.

And ask the former TWA Pilots how good APA was to them, oh wait never mind, you want to staple HP Pilots to the bottom.

I guess you are too mired in the past. Building a new union avoiding others past mistakes will only make us stronger and more capable. As for the future, we'll just have to wait and see.