ALPA/USAPA /West thread 4/6-4-12

[oldiebutgoody]

Parker and boys say publicly they will negotiate with whomever wins. So who do they really want as the pilot's cba come April 18, alpa negotiators or hired usapa negotiators? You know Glass & Co. has a preference.

We d/a fence sitters need to know soon. My vote goes to the one Parker fears the most.

That's a really stupid reason. The most successful companies are the ones that cooperate. With ALPA, It's ALWAYS adversarial. If the company were to offer everyone 25% pay raises, ALPA would IMMEDIATELY disapprove, just because the company offered it.

SWA doesn't have an adversarial relationship with their unions. In fact, it is the MOST unionized airline in america! THEY MAKE MONEY! AND HAVE THE BEST PAY/BENEFITS AS WELL!!

AMR PILOTS STILL HAVE A PENSION! PLUS, THEY NEVER HAD TO GO CHAPTER 11 (UNLIKE U, UAL, DAL, NWA, ETC)

AIRTRAN WAS JUST VOTED BEST AIRLINE (LEAST CONSUMER COMPLAINTS) IN AMERICA!

Why do the company and it's unions have to hate each other? Maybe with a better relationship they'd get rid of Jerry Glass and his cronies.

With USAPA, we have a great opportunity to get this apparently poorly respected airline "back on track"!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Prater, alpa leader, was one of the leaders of the IACP, he is a Continental pilot. His resume shows that he does not like to fly anything but a desk on flight pay loss.

""Today, Continental Captain John Prater was elected President of the Association with 24,444 roll call votes. Northwest Captain Duane Woerth received 23,524 votes. This is a short bio for our pilots.

You forgot the last couple of lines of his BIO (thesewill be added in a couple of years):

Presided over the dismantling of ALPA, caused by the union's poorly designed and instituted merger policies. It is said that he could have used some common sense to correct them, but in true "ALPA style" elected to cowtow to some of the larger airline member's demands.

Returned to the line as a Continental pilot, but couldn't get the hang of functioning without a couple of dozen high salaried secretaries. He found the pay and benefits of working airline pilots to be "an insult".

 

[L1011Ret]

That's a really stupid reason. The most successful companies are the ones that cooperate. With ALPA, It's ALWAYS adversarial. If the company were to offer everyone 25% pay raises, ALPA would IMMEDIATELY disapprove, just because the company offered it.

SWA doesn't have an adversarial relationship with their unions. In fact, it is the MOST unionized airline in america! THEY MAKE MONEY! AND HAVE THE BEST PAY/BENEFITS AS WELL!!

AMR PILOTS STILL HAVE A PENSION! PLUS, THEY NEVER HAD TO GO CHAPTER 11 (UNLIKE U, UAL, DAL, NWA, ETC)

AIRTRAN WAS JUST VOTED BEST AIRLINE (LEAST CONSUMER COMPLAINTS) IN AMERICA!

Why do the company and it's unions have to hate each other? Maybe with a better relationship they'd get rid of Jerry Glass and his cronies.

With USAPA, we have a great opportunity to get this apparently poorly respected airline "back on track"!

The thinking process of some of the pilots responding to these threads suggests that getting the airline "back on track" will be a challenge to say the least and that it unlikely that the pilots will play any significant part.

 

[maddawg]

SWA doesn't have an adversarial relationship with their unions. In fact, it is the MOST unionized airline in america! THEY MAKE MONEY! AND HAVE THE BEST PAY/BENEFITS AS WELL!!

AMR PILOTS STILL HAVE A PENSION! PLUS, THEY NEVER HAD TO GO CHAPTER 11 (UNLIKE U, UAL, DAL, NWA, ETC)

AIRTRAN WAS JUST VOTED BEST AIRLINE (LEAST CONSUMER COMPLAINTS) IN AMERICA!

This outfit isn't Airtran, this outfit isn't AMR and this outfit sure the h#ll isn't SWA .

So whats your point ?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nope, you're exactly right. It isn't any of them. Far worse in most respects. An adversarial relatonship between the unions and the company may be part of the reason why.

There isn't any reason we have to hate the company we work for, even though ALPA and other unions say so.

I'm not a KoolAid drinker either. I just think that it would benefit us to begin to work with the tools we're given, rather than letting our union and the company shove 'em where the sun don't shine!

Ain't happening with ALPA!

 

[N924PS]

Nope, you're exactly right. It isn't any of them. Far worse in most respects. An adversarial relatonship between the unions and the company may be part of the reason why.

There isn't any reason we have to hate the company we work for, even though ALPA and other unions say so.

I'm not a KoolAid drinker either. I just think that it would benefit us to begin to work with the tools we're given, rather than letting our union and the company shove 'em where the sun don't shine!

Ain't happening with ALPA!

Please direct me to a link that says ALPA says "we have to hate the company we work for."

Continental ALPA Pilots enjoy working for J.D. Powers and Associates "Number One Airline in the US 2007." And make $20-40/hour more than their counterparts on like equipment at Airways.

Think Jerry Glass is going to welcome Scott Petersen (USAPA Professional Negotiator) with something better than a "Cost-Neutral (LOA93) contract deal? Ain't happening, as you say.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Where have YOU been the last 20+ years at US Air/Airways? It's ALWAYS been adversarial. Don't believe me, ask any non ALPA shill (your comment makes your identity apparent).

I commend the CAL folks for their efforts. It was LARGELY due to the culture in place when Bethnue was running the show and APLA was not on the property. Give them time, they'll screw that up too.

Contract openers are ALWAYS "dream sheets". If not, you'd better find another negotiator!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Please direct me to a link that says ALPA says "we have to hate the company we work for."

Continental ALPA Pilots enjoy working for J.D. Powers and Associates "Number One Airline in the US 2007." And make $20-40/hour more than their counterparts on like equipment at Airways.

Think Jerry Glass is going to welcome Scott Petersen (USAPA Professional Negotiator) with something better than a "Cost-Neutral (LOA93) contract deal? Ain't happening, as you say.

What a stupid statement. Do you really think ALPA has a link somewhere that says we hate management? Deeds and actions of the past have dictated the present positions. The only way to achieve a win in an adversarial relationship is one unified voice. That includes all of ALPA. Do you really think that can happen? I can see it now, DAL, UAL, NWA et. al. doing a nationwide SOS in support of us. Those days never were here and never will be.

Good for CAL. As soon as there is mutual trust and respect for both sides, look what can happen. Do we have a chance for that here? Sure, only until we come together as a unified pilot group building trust between management and us. Will it happen? I doubt it. But one can only hope. I just know it isn't going to happen under ALPA's lack of leadership. I know what I have had, I look forward to a new beginning.

You're right about a contract. We'll be lucky to keep LOA93 rates for the combined pilot group. The biggest problem is the pile of cash that Doug has hoarded. Want to know what will happen? Look at DAL post 9/11. They also had a pile of cash and burned through it so fast they didn't know what hit them. As usual, management will protect themselves and we (The rank and file) will be left holding the bag, again. Do you really think that we have a chance at an industry leading contract? There is no way for that to happen. Especially now. And that's no matter who wins the election.

 

[Elevation]

USAPA's grand plan of "cost neutral"
Sad video here

You guys must be so proud

 

[oldiebutgoody]

USAPA's grand plan of "cost neutral"
Sad video here

You guys must be so proud

He DID NOT say "COST NEUTRAL CONTRACT", he was only refering to a cost neutral way to combine the lists. HUGE DIFFERENCE! You guys keep harping on this, but your case IS STUPID!

A losing argument is a losing argument. You need to come up with something new. Or, go to work for Hillary.

 

[FlyDCJets]

I heard from a pilot yesterday, that he never received his logon and pin code to vote. ALPAs reply, was contact NMB in DC for a form, fill out the form, and than spend $18 and FedEx back. Why should he have to spend $18 to vote, is'nt that what he is paying ALPA dues for?

 

[b737fo]

I heard from a pilot yesterday, that he never received his logon and pin code to vote. ALPAs reply, was contact NMB in DC for a form, fill out the form, and than spend $18 and FedEx back. Why should he have to spend $18 to vote, is'nt that what he is paying ALPA dues for?

Um. Not really. The NMB called for the vote not ALPA. The NMB controls the ballots not ALPA. The "polls" have been open since March 20 and he waited until 10 days before they close to get a valid ballot. It is a "cheap" $18 dollars however to help decide the direction of this group. Hopefully he does pony up the dough so his voice is heard.

 

[sharktooth]

Where have YOU been the last 20+ years at US Air/Airways? It's ALWAYS been adversarial. Don't believe me, ask any non ALPA shill (your comment makes your identity apparent).

I commend the CAL folks for their efforts. It was LARGELY due to the culture in place when Bethnue was running the show and APLA was not on the property. Give them time, they'll screw that up too.

Contract openers are ALWAYS "dream sheets". If not, you'd better find another negotiator!

Would you please quote the avatar you are replying to? Maybe it is just me, but I am kinda lost on your post, though I do completely agree with your comment on contract openers.

If there was one by Parker about "no-cost", I guess I missed it, but, wouldn't that constitute an opener on the merger of the pilot lists? I think he made a mistake tossing that out, basically opening issues that he probably should have let lie. Of course, maybe he is depending on the ignorance of the pilot group to not take advantage of his mistake.

Considering the latest SEC filing, I would think that the board expects to have a lot of cash laying around after this year.

 

[prechilill]

I heard from a pilot yesterday, that he never received his logon and pin code to vote. ALPAs reply, was contact NMB in DC for a form, fill out the form, and than spend $18 and FedEx back. Why should he have to spend $18 to vote, is'nt that what he is paying ALPA dues for?

He doesn't have to spend $18 to vote. In fact, it is free if he wants to get in his little car and drive on down to K street and pick up another ballot. Maybe you should get a few correct facts before posting next time??? What do you say partner?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I just got my ALPA magazine today. With 3 airlines going broke, over 600 former dues paying members on the street, who makes the cover? Why US Airways, of course! It's much more important that they don't lose 5500 dues paying members! Gotta keep that cash coming in so that they can support their $150K secretaries and $500K president!

With union support like this, hope our pilots never need that kind of assistance!