American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

In any situation one has to know thy enemy in order to succeed. The company appears to know us, as a membership, better than we know ourselves. The beat goes on and history repeats itself. For those who do not learn from it!

I think thisis a real ugly situation that can take years.The only way I see a quicker resolve is if the company turns us against each other and the unions.A sweeten deal with less job cuts and maybe over $32 will force a mutiny so to speak and ultimately a vote that could result in bad blood for years

 

[Rusty Hilock]

They are asking for too many jobs.we are just so used to concessionary contracts they think they can keep getting away with it,and from what Im reading many of you are ready to let them

"Let Them"!
We are already losing TOO MANY JOBS at TULE!
They have been taking away AMT and related Jobs at TULE since 2003. We have lost SEVERAL Thousand Of Title 1 JOBS AND the LOSSES Continue as we speak. We average LOSING about 10 Title I jobs / Month at TULE AND NONE OF THEM ARE BEING REPLACED.
The losses are due to retirements-deaths-leaving AA to pursuit other interests.

I wonder how LUS IAM folks would feel if 10 AMT- GSE JOBS / MONTH were being LOST at CLT or PIT or PHX or PHL and NONE of Them were being replaced?

TULE is being Killed off at a brisk pace and NO ONE is doing anything to stop it!

Dock 4A was just shut down after doing MD80 Heavy C and Light C checks for over 20 years in that Dock.
Did they bring another Fleet type to replace the MD80 ?
No, Instead they disassemble the Docking sections and are converting the Dock Space to Warehousing.
Not only are we losing people but now they are taking away the PHYSICAL CAPACITY to do more Aircraft Work.

We are not stupid at Tulsa and we look at VARIOUS Station Seniority Lists and see that there are people with 2018 DOH.

I'm sorry that I can't have any sympathy for Everyone else who wants NO JCBA because of the SCOPE Clause.

WE ARE ALREADY LIVING SCOPE AT TULE!!!

In the interest of accuracy: The RIF Numbers at TULE may slow down some in the next few months because of the $105K Buyout Carrot that the Company threw out recently.

 

[737823]

Oh Tim,

How soon you forget the 14 US agreement that had average of 1 flight a day scope including LAA metal, the retained LUS insurance, the 5 weeks vacation, etc. Exactly who was being screwed?

P. Rez

Rez you are doing 700’s shtick saying the 2014 LUS agreement is some testament to effective negotiations and the IAM 141 recovering from the disastrous 2013 UA agreement. You know full well that had there been no merger you wouldn’t have had single LAA/LUS metal language effectively grandfathering everything already in place.

You are being disingenuous and not everyone thinks that is a good agreement:

http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/iam-contract-at-usair.57264/

Josh

 

[737823]

And your TWU 580 agreement had what scope? Oh wait you can have great scope when you give away the farm to the point a vendor couldn’t come in and provide the company sufficient differential in costs to be worth having less direct flexibility over their operation.

Josh

 

[ALUS78]

"Let Them"!
We are already losing TOO MANY JOBS at TULE!
They have been taking away AMT and related Jobs at TULE since 2003. We have lost SEVERAL Thousand Of Title 1 JOBS AND the LOSSES Continue as we speak. We average LOSING about 10 Title I jobs / Month at TULE AND NONE OF THEM ARE BEING REPLACED.
The losses are due to retirements-deaths-leaving AA to pursuit other interests.

I wonder how LUS IAM folks would feel if 10 AMT- GSE JOBS / MONTH were being LOST at CLT or PIT or PHX or PHL and NONE of Them were being replaced?

TULE is being Killed off at a brisk pace and NO ONE is doing anything to stop it!

Dock 4A was just shut down after doing MD80 Heavy C and Light C checks for over 20 years in that Dock.
Did they bring another Fleet type to replace the MD80 ?
No, Instead they disassemble the Docking sections and are converting the Dock Space to Warehousing.
Not only are we losing people but now they are taking away the PHYSICAL CAPACITY to do more Aircraft Work.

We are not stupid at Tulsa and we look at VARIOUS Station Seniority Lists and see that there are people with 2018 DOH.

I'm sorry that I can't have any sympathy for Everyone else who wants NO JCBA because of the SCOPE Clause.

WE ARE ALREADY LIVING SCOPE AT TULE!!!

In the interest of accuracy: The RIF Numbers at TULE may slow down some in the next few months because of the $105K Buyout Carrot that the Company threw out recently.

Most work groups from both airlines lost a lot of jobs over the years

 

[Tim Nelson]

"Let Them"!
We are already losing TOO MANY JOBS at TULE!
They have been taking away AMT and related Jobs at TULE since 2003. We have lost SEVERAL Thousand Of Title 1 JOBS AND the LOSSES Continue as we speak. We average LOSING about 10 Title I jobs / Month at TULE AND NONE OF THEM ARE BEING REPLACED.
The losses are due to retirements-deaths-leaving AA to pursuit other interests.

I wonder how LUS IAM folks would feel if 10 AMT- GSE JOBS / MONTH were being LOST at CLT or PIT or PHX or PHL and NONE of Them were being replaced?

TULE is being Killed off at a brisk pace and NO ONE is doing anything to stop it!

Dock 4A was just shut down after doing MD80 Heavy C and Light C checks for over 20 years in that Dock.
Did they bring another Fleet type to replace the MD80 ?
No, Instead they disassemble the Docking sections and are converting the Dock Space to Warehousing.
Not only are we losing people but now they are taking away the PHYSICAL CAPACITY to do more Aircraft Work.

We are not stupid at Tulsa and we look at VARIOUS Station Seniority Lists and see that there are people with 2018 DOH.

I'm sorry that I can't have any sympathy for Everyone else who wants NO JCBA because of the SCOPE Clause.

WE ARE ALREADY LIVING SCOPE AT TULE!!!

In the interest of accuracy: The RIF Numbers at TULE may slow down some in the next few months because of the $105K Buyout Carrot that the Company threw out recently.

Lus has nothing to do with your job loss. Any rallies scheduled or are you boycotting pizza? Sorry but Peterson took the bait and is now beta to sito.

 

[Matt1200]

If the company cancels AMT day tomorrow that will make the union happy. I guess that will get us back to the table faster. Bull ****

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Lus has nothing to do with your job loss. Any rallies scheduled or are you boycotting pizza? Sorry but Peterson took the bait and is now beta to sito.

Never blamed any job losses on LUS.

Just stating the facts as I see them about TULE. In fact I stated the SCOPE has been implemented at TULE since 2003 Long before LUS was even heard of at AA.

"Any rallies scheduled or are you boycotting pizza?"

BTW, LUS -IAM was NO WHERE to be seen at any of the TWU Pickets last summer at different stations. In fact the IAM support we received at DFW came from the General Dynamics Lodge 776.

Just in case you need a reminder:





https://twu514.org/files/2018/05/AMT-Day-boycott.pdf

 

[737823]

Tim what was P Rez TWU 580 CBA like when HP integrated into US in 2006? Didn’t it have near minimum wage pay scale, cross utilization but many points in scope?

Josh

 

[Jester]

Tim what was P Rez TWU 580 CBA like when HP integrated into US in 2006? Didn’t it have near minimum wage pay scale, cross utilization but many points in scope?

Josh

It was pretty dismal. The CBA (and the union) was pretty much only good for unfair terminations and alike. Starting pay was around $7/hour and it took 6 years to earn $10/hour and family health insurance was only available for full-time employees, while part-time employees could only cover themselves. (If I recall correctly, there were some part-time people who were grandfathered in which allowed family coverage as a part-time worker, but after the contract that option ended.) It was the main reason as to why people went full-time, as it wasn't for the pay.

True cross utilization was an original idea from America West in the early 80's where ramp agents would be cross trained for the ticket counter. I was not around with the company then, but I couldn't imagine some of these people dealing with the flying public or even the general public without supervision. I believe that cross-utilization did not last more than a few years.

 

[737823]

It was pretty dismal. The CBA (and the union) was pretty much only good for unfair terminations and alike. Starting pay was around $7/hour and it took 6 years to earn $10/hour and family health insurance was only available for full-time employees, while part-time employees could only cover themselves. (If I recall correctly, there were some part-time people who were grandfathered in which allowed family coverage as a part-time worker, but after the contract that option ended.) It was the main reason as to why people went full-time, as it wasn't for the pay.

True cross utilization was an original idea from America West in the early 80's where ramp agents would be cross trained for the ticket counter. I was not around with the company then, but I couldn't imagine some of these people dealing with the flying public or even the general public without supervision. I believe that cross-utilization did not last more than a few years.

Thanks Jester. Seems the IAM is going backwards and trying to implement this with McGee and UGE.

Glad things are better for you now.

Josh

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Most work groups from both airlines lost a lot of jobs over the years

You are correct.

The problem is that TULE CONTINUES to Lose TITLE I Jobs and work every month at an Alarming rate.

LAA has and continues to hire MLS [Stock Clerks] at TULE in the last 2 years at the same time we are losing Title I people and work.

Recently more Managers and Supervisors have been hired at the very same time we are losing Title I people and work.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It was pretty dismal. The CBA (and the union) was pretty much only good for unfair terminations and alike. Starting pay was around $7/hour and it took 6 years to earn $10/hour and family health insurance was only available for full-time employees, while part-time employees could only cover themselves. (If I recall correctly, there were some part-time people who were grandfathered in which allowed family coverage as a part-time worker, but after the contract that option ended.) It was the main reason as to why people went full-time, as it wasn't for the pay.

True cross utilization was an original idea from America West in the early 80's where ramp agents would be cross trained for the ticket counter. I was not around with the company then, but I couldn't imagine some of these people dealing with the flying public or even the general public without supervision. I believe that cross-utilization did not last more than a few years.

cross utilization also meatn doing stew work as well until they voted to be unionized.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Never blamed any job losses on LUS.

Just stating the facts as I see them about TULE. In fact I stated the SCOPE has been implemented at TULE since 2003 Long before LUS was even heard of at AA.

"Any rallies scheduled or are you boycotting pizza?"

BTW, LUS -IAM was NO WHERE to be seen at any of the TWU Pickets last summer at different stations. In fact the IAM support we received at DFW came from the General Dynamics Lodge 776.

Just in case you need a reminder:





https://twu514.org/files/2018/05/AMT-Day-boycott.pdf

Look, you mechanics are good at complaining but you love the TWU. Enjoy them because they are playing the beta role to Sito. No, the IAM never ever supported your rallies. Sorry. I did and stood out at Wrigley even though my union boss (negotiator) blasted the TWU and their rallies as being counterproductive. Prez refused as well. I was disappointed in our Ill Ask Management Union bosses. They were with management when management told Sito to stand down at TWU rallies. And the beat goes on. So, nothing will be new. You guys are getting hosed. The only thing you can do is put pressure on your TWU's madness over blugging up talks due to the IAM pension deal breaker.

 

[737823]

Tim/Jester:
Was P Rez ever subject to working under these terms? As has been discussed TWU local president pay is less than a quarter of IAM 141 AGC pay per the LM-2s.

Josh