American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Rusty Hilock]

Look, you mechanics are good at complaining but you love the TWU. Enjoy them because they are playing the beta role to Sito. No, the IAM never ever supported your rallies. Sorry. I did and stood out at Wrigley even though my union boss (negotiator) blasted the TWU and their rallies as being counterproductive. Prez refused as well. I was disappointed in our Ill Ask Management Union bosses. They were with management when management told Sito to stand down at TWU rallies. And the beat goes on. So, nothing will be new. You guys are getting hosed. The only thing you can do is put pressure on your TWU's madness over blugging up talks due to the IAM pension deal breaker.

"The only thing you can do is put pressure on your TWU's madness over blugging up talks due to the IAM pension deal breaker."

Welcome to the Frozen Pension Club. Hope all IAM folks enjoy the new 401K plan that you will be receiving either thru JCBA or Section 6 imposed by an Arbitrator.

We ALL could do a lot worse by being placed in the PBGC instead of freezing the plans we have. [OUR AA PLAN is ALREADY FROZEN]
It is much worse for Multi- Employer Plans [The IAM Plan] than Single Employer plans when placed in the PBGC.

You can bet AA will eventually look for another avenue to dump the pensions off to the PBGC.
They have already tried once so don't think they will not attempt it again.

I hope ALL the IAM folks enjoy your Memorial Day HOLIDAY with DAY off or 2X Compensation if you work.

 

[WeAAsles]

Interesting.

American Airlines Group Inc (NYSE:AAL) has a checkered history, having filed for bankruptcy in November 2011 and emerging from that bankruptcy in December 2013 by merging with US Airways.

Like many of the airlines, the past few years have been profitable for AAR. Maybe not as good as they were before bankruptcy — see its operating margin of 9.3% in fiscal 2008, double what it was in 2017 — but I’m sure the company’s executives will take them.

American Airlines has almost 127,000 employees with median annual pay of $62,394, four times its 2017 profit per employee. A greedy shareholder would like the Marx ratio to be higher (i.e., a higher profit per employee) but a lot of people lost their jobs to keep the airline flying; the profits are just fine where they are.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-p-500-companies-doing-192421084.html

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i also saw that..my first thought is that if we had as many employees as dl, we wouldn't be on that list.

also, your motley fool expert wrote another scary article about aa.

i guess aa's cash on hand doesn't count and dl and ua get free jet fuel.

aal or american airlines, itself, is a "looming train wreck".

 

[Jester]

Thanks Jester. Seems the IAM is going backwards and trying to implement this with McGee and UGE.

Glad things are better for you now.

Josh

Tim/Jester:
Was P Rez ever subject to working under these terms? As has been discussed TWU local president pay is less than a quarter of IAM 141 AGC pay per the LM-2s.

Josh

As I mentioned a few days ago, PRez was one of the O.G.'s as a TWU organizer, so he would have worked for America West on the PHX ramp without a contract. I am not sure as to the time line or his official position, but PRez as been in the local union leadership for the last 20+ years starting with TWU 580.

In fairness to the low wages even with a contract, America West was a marginal business model which could not in nearly its first 20 years of operations cobble together 4 quarters of consecutive profits. Attempts for a mid-west hub failed in CMH, hubs in So Cal failed, and the airline retreated back into battling for low fares in PHX and LAS hubs against direct the competition of Southwest. The pilots got theirs with a contract and whatever crumbs leftover were to be divvied between the other work groups. The economic concept of "rent sharing" has proven to be highly correlated between airline profits and union wages, especially as former America West ramp agents have more than doubled their topped-out hourly rate after two mergers and the subsequent robust corporate profits.

 

[WeAAsles]

i also saw that..my first thought is that if we had as many employees as dl, we wouldn't be on that list.

also, your motley fool expert wrote another scary article about aa.

i guess aa's cash on hand doesn't count and dl and ua get free jet fuel.

aal or american airlines, itself, is a "looming train wreck".

You caught pretty much how I saw that. To me it it confirms that AA needs to get these deals done so they can begin to synergize and whittle the numbers down some. You get some of those buyouts done Companywide and that number may drop by 10 to $20,000?

And yea I saw Adam wrote another Nuclear Bomb against AA. Your Local even posted it on their Facebook page for cripes sake???? Sigh.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

i also saw that..my first thought is that if we had as many employees as dl, we wouldn't be on that list.

also, your motley fool expert wrote another scary article about aa.

i guess aa's cash on hand doesn't count and dl and ua get free jet fuel.

aal or american airlines, itself, is a "looming train wreck".

"i guess aa's cash on hand doesn't count and dl and ua get free jet fuel."

AAL has about 6 Billion CASH on Hand. Keep in mind they filed for Chapter 11 in 2011 with between 4 and 5 Billion CASH on Hand.

Higher fuel cost combined at the same time they have 3 billion in debt and 1 billion in pension obligations due in the next 18 months COULD eat up the spare cash pretty quick.

I'm not saying that AAL is definitely filing C11 in the next 18 months BUT could find itself in a serious financial bind much quicker than DAL.

 

[NYer]

"i guess aa's cash on hand doesn't count and dl and ua get free jet fuel."

AAL has about 6 Billion CASH on Hand. Keep in mind they filed for Chapter 11 in 2011 with between 4 and 5 Billion CASH on Hand.

Higher fuel cost combined at the same time they have 3 billion in debt and 1 billion in pension obligations due in the next 18 months COULD eat up the spare cash pretty quick.

I'm not saying that AAL is definitely filing C11 in the next 18 months BUT could find itself in a serious financial bind much quicker than DAL.

They are nowhere near another BK. They are in a markedly different position and quite healthy.

 

[WeAAsles]

Taking Stock: Warren Buffett likes American Airlines, which likely means you should too


https://newsok.com/article/5589843/...an-airlines-which-likely-means-you-should-too

 

[PIEDMONT784]

They are nowhere near another BK. They are in a markedly different position and quite healthy.

BK is only an issue when they WANT it to be an issue....

 

[ALUS78]

You caught pretty much how I saw that. To me it it confirms that AA needs to get these deals done so they can begin to synergize and whittle the numbers down some. You get some of those buyouts done Companywide and that number may drop by 10 to $20,000?

And yea I saw Adam wrote another Nuclear Bomb against AA. Your Local even posted it on their Facebook page for cripes sake???? Sigh.

If the company is so worried about headcount why do they continue to employ such an obscene number of managers. Im not spouting off I have never seen anything like it.

 

[robbedagain]

Agree ALUS78. There no justification for that n at least in bwi most of em dont know squat bout the operations but the station mgr herself is a bully so theres almost like a higher level of fear in the mgrs faces .

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Taking Stock: Warren Buffett likes American Airlines, which likely means you should too


https://newsok.com/article/5589843/...an-airlines-which-likely-means-you-should-too

Yeah, I would like AAL if I owned as much stock as He did. The article even points out that they gave 11 billion dollars back to the shareholders. Where did the 11 BILLION COME FROM? It came from the profits which were spent in the form of STOCK BUYBACKS.
To pull this off they are operating the Airline on Credit which the bill has to eventually be paid back.

The Stock buybacks are great for majority investors but SUCK for the employees.

Now we have 25 billion dollars of DEBT and Underfunded pension plans as a result which SUCKS for the worker at AAL.
All of this sunshine at they very same time FUEL PRICES are INCREASING.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Taking Stock: Warren Buffett likes American Airlines, which likely means you should too


https://newsok.com/article/5589843/...an-airlines-which-likely-means-you-should-too

WARREN BUFFETT = Delta Airlines

https://www.equities.com/news/why-buffett-is-the-largest-shareholder-in-delta-air-lines

"Even longtime airline skeptic Warren Buffett recently jumped on the Delta bandwagon. His Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) investment company holds $2.8 billion of DAL, which makes it Delta’s largest institutional shareholder with a 7.3% stake in the company."


DAL has a 10 X better Debt to Equity Ratio than AAL.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah, I would like AAL if I owned as much stock as He did. The article even points out that they gave 11 billion dollars back to the shareholders. Where did the 11 BILLION COME FROM? It came from the profits which were spent in the form of STOCK BUYBACKS.
To pull this off they are operating the Airline on Credit which the bill has to eventually be paid back.

The Stock buybacks are great for majority investors but SUCK for the employees.

Now we have 25 billion dollars of DEBT and Underfunded pension plans as a result which SUCKS for the worker at AAL.
All of this sunshine at they very same time FUEL PRICES are INCREASING.

Chill out man, chill out. You’re ruining a good Zen moment here with all your negative energy.

 

[WeAAsles]

WARREN BUFFETT = Delta Airlines

https://www.equities.com/news/why-buffett-is-the-largest-shareholder-in-delta-air-lines

"Even longtime airline skeptic Warren Buffett recently jumped on the Delta bandwagon. His Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) investment company holds $2.8 billion of DAL, which makes it Delta’s largest institutional shareholder with a 7.3% stake in the company."


DAL has a 10 X better Debt to Equity Ratio than AAL.

Thanks man but I’m not interested in buying any Delta A stock. That Company’s got some weird “Culture” thing that spooks me out.

I like Amazon and Google a little more.