American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Traymark]

Shows how determined they are to fast track this proposal.

Fast track????
Are you here all week?

 

[ograc]

It's funny that the union we pay dues to never shows us any counter proposals or "asks"....but the company posts their offer everywhere...its typical, that the company gives us more info on what's currently on the table, than our own union...can't believe we still have the T.W.U. & ASS. "Representing" us...

Have we had enough bs yet???

Really...

It is far from typical that either party shares information with the masses on current contract proposals exchanged at the bargaining table. It is outside of the historical norm in contract negotiations. The reason for this is proposals are just that. They are presented, modified and sometimes taken off the table in the process of negotiations. It is apparent, that in the current and normal negotiations process, they can't sell it to our representatives / agents. Union dues are paid to the Association to be our collective bargaining representative. To look out for the betterment of the entire membership. We should vote for nothing that is not a TA by our collective bargaining representative. Trying to side step the collective bargaining process, on the company's part, should be duly noted and viewed with skepticism by all Association members. Back to the table. Let's get an agreement that works for all.

 

[WeAAsles]

Put existing proposal to a vote and let's guess what the outcome would be. My money is on the sub par proposal passes and ALL of us are stuck with it! Some more than others. The process for an agreement remains at the bargaining table. We are represented employees. I would like to see the collective bargaining process followed. Shame on the company for trying to side step the collective bargaining process. Shows how determined they are to fast track this proposal. Should make all wonder why. Both parties need to get back to the table IMO. Let me know when a TA has been reached by both parties. Until then... let's play by the rules AA

Careful Ograc some people can’t tell that you were being facetious about putting the sub par proposal that we would be stuck with out for a vote.

 

[Traymark]

. It is outside of the historical norm in contract negotiations.

You know what else is outside the norm in representation? Not getting to vote on your representative body.

This whole thing is as unconventional as it gets .
It’s been far far long enough, put it on the table , let’s digest it, and if it’s total crap
Let’s let the membership send the message that we didn’t get to send when the Asssociation was forced on us.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

They’ll shake some people out with those offers. Of course if they had/have a Pre 65 Bridge in any offers they come out with, they’ll get a ton more takers.

I agree. Without a good bridge like UAL IBT members got most people will stay until 65 years old for Medicare. They are making the Proposal lucrative for people to stay until at least 65. [ Higher 401k Match - Wage Increase- More VC- More Holidays plus Health Insurance a lot cheaper than can purchased on the open market.]

 

[ograc]

Careful Ograc some people can’t tell that you were being facetious about putting the sub par proposal that we would be stuck with out for a vote.

Let me be clear. I pay dues to be represented at the bargaining table. If we must vote on any proposal, put forth by the company, that has not been tentatively agreed to by my bargaining representative at the table, that proposal will be viewed as not in my best interest. Attempts to circumvent the collective bargaining process should be viewed with caution by all members (TWU/IAM represented MTC and Fleet). IMO... Until there is tentative agreement by both parties; it should not be put forth for consideration or vote by the membership. Anything else goes against the grain of the intent of collective bargaining. The company, by their recent actions, are clearly trying to circumvent the negotiations process. Should make everyone wonder why.

 

[Talos]

It is far from typical that either party shares information with the masses on current contract proposals exchanged at the bargaining table. It is outside of the historical norm in contract negotiations. The reason for this is proposals are just that. They are presented, modified and sometimes taken off the table in the process of negotiations. It is apparent, that in the current and normal negotiations process, they can't sell it to our representatives / agents. Union dues are paid to the Association to be our collective bargaining representative. To look out for the betterment of the entire membership. We should vote for nothing that is not a TA by our collective bargaining representative. Trying to side step the collective bargaining process, on the company's part, should be duly noted and viewed with skepticism by all Association members. Back to the table. Let's get an agreement that works for all.

Not much in this situation is normal, starting with the Association. You have 2 groups with different positions to defend. It is just normal for each group to try to do the best for its own members. After all the years of being kicked around it is hard to imagine people agreeing to take one for the team. I can only say what I've seen from LAA members and there is a severe break of trust with the Association. The main thing I have heard is a serious doubt that the Association is capable of negotiating a deal. Very bad vibes going around.

 

[ograc]

You know what else is outside the norm in representation? Not getting to vote on your representative body.

This whole thing is as unconventional as it gets .
It’s been far far long enough, put it on the table , let’s digest it, and if it’s total crap
Let’s let the membership send the message that we didn’t get to send when the Asssociation was forced on us.

Your perceived message could be you will accept the company's proposal without regard for your bargaining agent's recommendation or the negotiation process. Deliver that message and the company has played you and laughs all the way to the bank. Back to the table. Back to collective bargaining negotiations AA!

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me be clear. I pay dues to be represented at the bargaining table. If we must vote on any proposal, put forth by the company, that has not been tentatively agreed to by my bargaining representative at the table, that proposal will be viewed as not in my best interest. Attempts to circumvent the collective bargaining process should be viewed with caution by all members (TWU/IAM represented MTC and Fleet). IMO... Until there is tentative agreement by both parties; it should not be put forth for consideration or vote by the membership. Anything else goes against the grain of the intent of collective bargaining. The company, by their recent actions, are clearly trying to circumvent the negotiations process. Should make everyone wonder why.

You’re hitting Home Runs straight outta the Ballpark and into the street now Brother.

 

[P. REZ]

Gulfcoast,

"I agree. I also want more info on the PT ratio. That could hurt a lot of people. That is my first concern. Could anyone be forcibly downgraded in their current station?"

To me this is the thing I want clarified more than any other thing. I would think it's a pretty forward question the Association can ask AA and the response should be simple and straight forward. To keep you in your station does not mean you must go part time.

The company absolutely could bump you down to PT. Obviously, you could transfer to stay FT. With the Company proposed PT ratio language, hundreds in DFW alone could be forced PT or to transfer to hold FT.

P. Rez

 

[Jester]

The company, by their recent actions, are clearly trying to circumvent the negotiations process. Should make everyone wonder why.

Maybe because Management realizes from its inception the Association has been a C.F. due to its delays with its in-house fighting and the Company wants an agreement as Section 6 looms? The timing is curious... the threat of Section 6 and a handful of AA stations not making the annual departure cut as the Company has been making its offers open to public discussion? That's no coincidence.

As for the latest proposal and has many other posters have mentioned would be the devil in the details. Personally, I am not pleased with the station scope because it does not expand the existing combined IAM and TWU stations as many legitimate locations won't be added (HNL, SNA, ELP, MSY, etc.). Furthermore, the company language stating there will be no furloughs from existing stations do not necessarily protect those stations as through attrition, as will fleet service agents be replaced by subcontracted labor on a one-to-one basis?

So far this proposal to be a "No" vote for me as it fails to expand station scope (and maybe station protections) and the 401K matching contribution to be inadequate, especially in light of the pilot's agreement with the lost of LUS medical insurance.

 

[WeAAsles]

The company absolutely could bump you down to PT. Obviously, you could transfer to stay FT. With the Company proposed PT ratio language, hundreds in DFW alone could be forced PT or to transfer to hold FT.

P. Rez

I just commented to Kerry and David on their video why don’t they talk about their PT proposal?

They make it sound so joyous that they promise you can keep working in your City if you want.

 

[cltrat]

The company absolutely could bump you down to PT. Obviously, you could transfer to stay FT. With the Company proposed PT ratio language, hundreds in DFW alone could be forced PT or to transfer to hold FT.

P. Rez

With all due respect then you guys need to get out in an official update out with fine tooth details on why this is the chitty deal that it is otherwise you’ll get the mad dash demand to vote.Even I can see that why your bosses can’t is beyond me.You guys are letting this happen.

 

[AANOTOK]

The Association still does not have it's chit together...Either the TWU or IAM "st

With all due respect then you guys need to get out in an official update out with fine tooth details on why this is the chitty deal that it is otherwise you’ll get the mad dash demand to vote.Even I can see that why your bosses can’t is beyond me.You guys are letting this happen.

Nice, rat Very fair and honest point
A home run right out of the ballpark

 

[charlie Brown]

Hey Rez, where is your buddy CB, man he hasn't been here in a long time giving his pep talk, hummm I wounder why?

I’ve been out of town all week, just got back today. Someone said you were asking for me? What’s up?
And Bob, not sure what you mean by pep talks. Most of my post are directed to the IAM side since they elected me to be their voice. Not sure why you would have issues with me or prez fighting for what our members have told us to fight for. And if you do? Ok that’s fine, but that’s not going to keep us from fighting for what we believe our members need. Don’t beleieve I’ve ever stated on here to you or anyone else that it’s important that you like me. I come on here to try and answer as many questions as I can. That’s it. If you don’t want to like me because of that? Ok. Your welcome to PM me anytime you want. I’ll give you my cell and we can talk about any issue you want.