American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[charlie Brown]

I'll stop arguing Charlie, just let me know what is next. The Association seems pretty quiet on that.

I don’t take it as your arguing. So no problem. I don’t even care if you are arguing. To me, it just means you care about what’s going on. I respect that. What’s next? We are going to meet with the company the two days in June and see what comes Of that. That at this time, is the only meetings that are scheduled.

 

[WeAAsles]

Also keep in mind. If it was up to several posters on here, we would have already voted on the first offer by the company, and not even been offered these latest improvements.

Even NYer who is TWU side has said he believes they’ll be one last sweetening before an official proposal is given to you guys from the Company and they still want to vote on this one now too?

It’s like they can’t understand that this is only as I call it “The Tester”

 

[cltrat]

Rat
Your IAM. How many details do you need being IAM other than your losing your insurance, and they are taking jobs. Just those two details alone, does that make it a chitty agreement to you? Or do you think the latest changes are good for the IAM? Of course the latest changes look pretty good to our twu brothers, I understand that. That’s exactly what the company’s goal is, is to sweeten it for the twu side so they will demand it come out for a vote.

CB of course I don’t need to know, but something needs to be done to do to curtail what is going on.Maybe if it put out as official detailed update people in general would understand better.the approach now doesn’t seem to be doing anything for solidarity between LAAand LUS people

 

[charlie Brown]

A few things to think about:
Ask the company when they say you can stay in your station if you want? If that means FT? Also ask them to give you a cap on what the insurance can go up each year even if we all took the LAA insurance.
Then most importantly: ask them what happens to our jobs once someone retires or takes the buy out, or any other attrition method. Ask if those jobs are replaced with association members.
Bottom line is this latest offer the company is presenting shrinks our jobs and work over the life of the contract. Their goal is through attrition to get fleet down to the core cities. Maybe a dozen or so. All hubs and some focus stations. Sure those stations and employees that will be left for the next contract will get leading industry pay, because they will be down to a dozen stations. They will be able to treat whoever is left, really well. But who will be left is the big question?

 

[AANOTOK]

CB of course I don’t need to know, but something needs to be done to do to curtail what is going on.Maybe if it put out as official detailed update people in general would understand better.the approach now doesn’t seem to be doing anything for solidarity between LAAand LUS people

Another Homer!

 

[charlie Brown]

CB of course I don’t need to know, but something needs to be done to do to curtail what is going on.Maybe if it put out as official detailed update people in general would understand better.the approach now doesn’t seem to be doing anything for solidarity between LAAand LUS people

Rat
You know I’m for giving out as much info as I can. I also know the IAM side especially in clt is pretty much briefed on what is going on. I do remember seeing you at the info meetings that were held in clt. I can’t control, how or when the twu decides to brief their side. Hopefully the association will put out more detailed info next week on this latest scam the company is trying to pull off.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

And this right here is why it will always be an issue. Is the company taking advantage of it, of course. What are they taking advantage of, this mess called the Association where disagreements will always be there. From the inside to the out.

Sorry Charlie, this was mentioned and predicted from the first day the Association was announced. Nobody should be surprised. AA is using every tool available to them, just like the Association would be doing if they had any.

Here's the way I've seen the JCBA negotiations for the last 2 + years.

2 different horses hitched to the same wagon PULLING IN 2 DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

The IAM pulling towards Healthcare and Retirement and the TWU pulling towards SCOPE.
This is why the JCBA wagon is stuck in the mud.
The Company got tired of a dealing with a group that can't even get their wagon out of the mud and decided to drive around them and go DIRECTLY to the membership.

The secrecy by " The ASSOCIATION" has bred even more MISTRUST within the ranks.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Rat
You know I’m for giving out as much info as I can. I also know the IAM side especially in clt is pretty much briefed on what is going on. I do remember seeing you at the info meetings that were held in clt. I can’t control, how or when the twu decides to brief their side. Hopefully the association will put out more detailed info next week on this latest scam the company is trying to pull off.

I don't think it is fair for you to suggest fleet service is going down to 12 stations without referencing the language. Something is wrong. Until then, it's just fear mongering and that's why the Associaiton looks awful and the company is communicating more to us. Even if the offer is awful, the Associaiton looks like amateur hour. All because of the pension. Sad.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I just commented to Kerry and David on their video why don’t they talk about their PT proposal?

They make it sound so joyous that they promise you can keep working in your City if you want.

i think kerry and david are planning a special video for their next episode, one where they tell us that aa's total yearly package is worth $8k more than dl's and $7.5k more than united's (not counting PS), but the assoc. won't budge on lus insurance.

mutiny on the bounty. they view us as short people.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Even NYer who is TWU side has said he believes they’ll be one last sweetening before an official proposal is given to you guys from the Company and they still want to vote on this one now too?

It’s like they can’t understand that this is only as I call it “The Tester”

some of us are on the same wavelength. a final sweetener, an extra lump or two, of sugar.

kerry and dave won't budge on lus insurance, but they might be nice about lavs and more friendlier PT numbers? i can also see them being super nice with .50 more on DOS and 6% 401k match, along with their friendly 5% contribution. ILC stuff.

these team big-shooters make me feel like an all-star.

 

[Talos]

Here's the way I've seen the JCBA negotiations for the last 2 + years.

2 different horses hitched to the same wagon PULLING IN 2 DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

The IAM pulling towards Healthcare and Retirement and the TWU pulling towards SCOPE.
This is why the JCBA wagon is stuck in the mud.
The Company got tired of a dealing with a group that can't even get their wagon out of the mud and decided to drive around them and go DIRECTLY to the membership.

The secrecy by " The ASSOCIATION" has bred even more MISTRUST within the ranks.

Lots of members thinking the TWU is acting like a dog that just got neutered .Don't hear much from them at all. The Association has pretty much been written off as far as having ability to function as a unit. The company puts this stuff out and of course leaves out the negative aspects. This is quite the strange experience

 

[NYer]

This isn't strange at all, so far it's been textbook since the beginning.

Been saying since late last year that the most difficult is yet to come while others on here were pointing towards a possible finish by December.

Since then the steps currently being taken in these negotiations by the airline were shared but they were mostly panned.

Nothing thus far has been a surprise and to act as if they were is disingenuous.

Everyone played right into the airline's hands, even arguing the points that were going to be enhanced before they enhanced them.

Guess what. If this goes into Section 6, the Association is the party that will need to move their position more than the airline. Why?

Because the airline has methodically moved themselves into the camp of good faith bargaining (as defined by the NMB), by moving towards the Association in many categories. What's left? Scope & Medical?

This is where the Association movement will need to come from?

It won't be compensation, the 401K, sick days, holidays or anything like that because that stuff is public and there would be a mutiny if it changed.

You think you can force something with some imaginary leverage? Good luck.

The only leverage is to prolong and maintain the status quo as long as possible.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

With all due respect then you guys need to get out in an official update out with fine tooth details on why this is the chitty deal that it is otherwise you’ll get the mad dash demand to vote.Even I can see that why your bosses can’t is beyond me.You guys are letting this happen.

it's not that hard. the negotiating committee should have a numbers guy.

the twu used to have a guy (connelly, i believe) out of sfo and we knew the company is proposing to spend, say, on average $480 million a year/over 5 years, on fleet service, opposed to prior number.

i still believe the scope issues are tools pulled by the company to give back or even enhance, in exchange for less compensation. look at the deicing nonsense. it's gone, no, you can keep it in these cities.

someone has to reconcile that your insurance is gone and let the company know what will be expected in return. if the iam people don't feel like sharing that with twu people, then maybe catering can stay. doesn't sound like an awesome deal for a lus iam guy in ord or phx.

otherwise, there will be much more turmoil if the assoc. digs in to save lus insurance under the pretext that they want everyone to have it. the company has drawn that red line. even parker kept talking about it in the past tense.

i believe the obvious is to get compensated through wages and 401k for it's loss. maybe the assoc. can put out a video giving it's red line on wages and 401k company contribution & match in exchange for the lus insurance?

 

[PIEDMONT784]

We are getting played with one of the oldest, and most effective labor strategies in history -- It's called "Divide and Conquer".

The Company is pitting the TWU/LAA and IAM/LUS workgroups against each other. Of course, there are posters right here that not only know this, but assist in perpetuating it...

The below video is a confession of an ex Union Buster, and I suggest that anyone that is serious about their future watch it. Ograc post's are 100% spot on regarding the Company strategically attempting to circumvent our leadership, and divide us!



>SPIT<

 

[NYer]

it's not that hard. the negotiating committee should have a numbers guy.

the twu used to have a guy (connelly, i believe) out of sfo and we knew the company is proposing to spend, say, on average $480 million a year/over 5 years, on fleet service, opposed to prior number.

i still believe the scope issues are tools pulled by the company to give back or even enhance, in exchange for less compensation. look at the deicing nonsense. it's gone, no, you can keep it in these cities.

Yes and no.

If you look at the scope, you see that most of that they want falls into certain categories. No other airline has it or the airline doesn't want to expand to other side.

It was easy to predict the deicing, and I even mentioned the possibility on these pages. For the most part, the IAM doesn't deice. If they kept our TWU language it would mean the airline would need to expand their current deicing footprint. (more trucks, supplies and possibly more FSC)

They suggest to eliminate it which makes the current places that do them uneasy. Later they redline the current stations who deice and there is a sigh of relief. When the airline gives their official proposal it won't be surpring if they include or add DFW to that list.

Don't be surprised if we go to UA, plus 3% with 2.5% annual raises. (in Fleet)