American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[P. REZ]

Update

Things the Company isn't saying in their jetnet garbage:

For TWU employees, potentially many hundreds forced to PT or transfer to hold FT, no former closed cities opened unless represented by IAM currently, lavs and water now when and where directed work, Core Insurance plan rates were lowered for this year only per Company.

You can believe it or not, but we are fighting as an Association to not accept. The IAM NC is in this for all of us including TWU represented employees.

P. Rez

 

[Racer X]

Ok but if 40% PT numbers survive what will that look like?

40% would greatly effect TWU
Company proposes 40% of ALL employees. (Ft and pt)
Assoc proposed better language to lower pt total. ( Could be 40% of just FT compliment, or could actually go higher percentage of FT and STILL get a decrease in pt)
Example: Assoc proposal... 40% of FT......with approx 17,000 fleet
#s would be approx..12,000 FT and 4,800 PT (round figures)
45% of FT ....would be 11,800 Ft and 5,300 pt
( round figures)
Company proposal.
40% of total employees ( 17,000 ) would be
Would be approx 10,200 FT and 6,800 PT

 

[WeAAsles]

Update

Things the Company isn't saying in their jetnet garbage:

For TWU employees, potentially many hundreds forced to PT or transfer to hold FT, no former closed cities opened unless represented by IAM currently, lavs and water now when and where directed work, Core Insurance plan rates were lowered for this year only per Company.

You can believe it or not, but we are fighting as an Association to not accept. The IAM NC is in this for all of us including TWU represented employees.

P. Rez

So basically even if we continued on with our current Fleet Headcount of about 18,000, 40% of the Total would mean 7,200 could potentially be PT out of that count.

Now correct me if I’m wrong Rez. Those PT numbers don’t need to be spread out evenly where every city could have a 60/40 split?

That 40% count can be placed anywhere the Company chooses.

Now on those cities. We have a lot of TWU Members that came from those closed cities and any advocates for Commuters can kiss that idea goodbye if they aren’t going to be brought back to life.

My friends city MEM is one and HNL is another. Even though it would be very high Seniority it would be nice to maybe one day have an opportunity to consider transferring to Hawaii.

 

[Racer X]

I just learned some disturbing news about exactly why we are at a standstill. And to think both CB and Rez continue to butter the ball of all of us, they have fooled everyone on here. This may not have come to be a big surprise to many but, the truth of the matter is that the IAM, is holding up the wheels progress. With 6 negotiators on each side, there is one one to break a tie. Because the IAM feel no love for this concessionaire contract. Namely the medical. I for one couldn’t care less weather the membership at LUS keep it or not. The membership did strike gold when the merger was announced and have have enjoyed that benefits of that longer than the LAA side, now that our pay has been increased, we at LAA still haven’t all the other financial benefits that LUS have been getting all this time. A compromise would be let the folks at LUS continue to enjoy the medical, for the same amount of time we have been deprived of that nice double time and half. Don’t trust what the association is telling you, it’s a lie, and don’t trust a word from any IAM member claiming to be in the know.

Are you saying that you would be ok with LUS keeping their current medical and LAA keeping theirs?
If that goes on the table and the Twu is ok with that....I agree this will pass NO PROBLEM AT ALL ( especially if the scope gets enhanced a bit more.....catering and/or add stations)
But if that does go out will the TWU members not feel like they just lost the lottery?
I certainly would....
Bob, if you speak for the majority of TWU on the medical piece, I believe a deal CAN and WILL get done.

 

[Racer X]

Weasel wth do you care? If you love the IAM so much go pull their pants down and go to work, if you haven't already. Matter fact, transfer to clt and go work for damn usair. I can admit that you bring out some good points from time to time but the reality is that you are a damn traitor and could care less about your own guys. This merger hasn't done chit for LAA because these clowns like rez and cb and whoever else are making decisions they have no business making. Then you show up cheerleading them on like you at the damn yankees game. They are all IGMers and don't give 2 chits about you or anything AA. so the first chance I get to vote rez and his posse off the island i'm going to do it with pleasure. their catering, their medical and whatever else will go up in smoke because none of them ever felt any remorse for holding AAers hostage. to hell with em'...cant wait to see rez actually lifting a damn bag for a change lol, cuz he has no business negotiating anything for anyone!

No Business negotiating???
You do realize they were elected to represent their members don’t you?

 

[Racer X]

my comments are not about whether this proposal/offer is good or bad. they're about people like you who try to pretend that you have AAers best interest, when the fact is that you don't. Sir, I have two degrees and 6 houses. At this point in my life I have a sneaking suspicion that I can decipher between reality and being hustled/bs. you SIR are nothing more than a street hustler imho and I can't wait until you and your crew are voted out of here for good!

Two degrees and six houses yet working for AA??? Hmmmmmmmm

 

[Racer X]

Here we are again at AA . Another Memorial Day HOLIDAY will come and go while we have a regular work day.

Here's the way I've seen the JCBA negotiations for the last 2 + years.

2 different horses hitched to the same wagon PULLING IN 2 DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

The IAM pulling towards Healthcare and Retirement and the TWU pulling towards SCOPE.
This is why the JCBA wagon is stuck in the mud.
The Company got tired of a dealing with a group that can't even get their wagon out of the mud and decided to drive around them and go DIRECTLY to the membership.

The secrecy by " The ASSOCIATION" has bred even more MISTRUST within the ranks.


I can tell you that the Majority of TWU members HATE being FORCED into the Association by the
AFL-CIO. We wanted a NMB Election to choose our representation after the merger.

JCBA= VOTE YES AND VOTE OFTEN

Two different directions??? I don’t see that.
IAM is ABSOLUTELY pulling for SCOPE...
The TWU is ABSOLUTELY pulling for RETIREMENT and HEALTHCARE.
Both IAM and TWU want the best retirement PACKAGE for members. Whether that is PENSION or 401K MATCH or Combo of BOTH..
BOTH Also WANT best MEDICAL that can be negotiated.

 

[Racer X]

If this latest edition is still soooooo bad, it should be very easy to show all of us why it's soooooo bad.

Show us all the really really bad things the company did not put on Jetnet and make your case against this.
The membership deserves as much and we deserve it today, not next week or next month.

PRez, CB, the rest of the NC ~ make your case why this is a horrible horrible offer.
Continued crickets from the NC on this won't be acceptable.
Show us ALL of it.

I'm fine with putting it out for a vote, after reading the full text of everything involved.
I'm fine if it gets voted down.
I'm fine if it gets voted in.
But lets vote, I know thats a foreign concept for the Association.

The membership has waited long enough, we need to see where we are, today.

FIRST and FOREMOST——. LOSS OF JOBS!!!!!!!!
Second.... Healthcare increase of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS per year....
Third... retirement that is not ( yet ) up to where we can have a decent quality of life
Profit sharing significantly lower than other carriers
Wages...Top of scal DOS ( good).
No provision to keep us at TOS.
FT/ PT RATIO.......would destroy many current cities
Vacation 6 weeks ( not bad). BUT only if we agree to all the above, and then ONLY after 30 years..... others have after 23 or 24 yrs.
Buyout.... putting cost on the CBA....terrible
AND ONLY where company decides to let members take buyout.
Also many other articles that although they are improvements to either of IAM or TWU current language it STILL does NOT GET US BACK TO PRE BK agreements.

 

[Racer X]

P. Rez = Business Unionist

He seems to advocate for what is best for the IAM not listening to the members concerns about the IAMNPF. Supported UA agreement which has resulted in cuts to mainline UA PCE and ramp jobs.

P. Rez organized and supported TWU 580 in the garbage HP CBA.

Josh

Josh
Others are saying you don’t even work for AA and that you are a banker or something......
Do you work for AA? If you do....I welcome your input and believe you have the right to state your opinions.
If you are NOT an AA employee , then why do you believe you should be posting here or why anyone should value your opinions?

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Two different directions??? I don’t see that.
IAM is ABSOLUTELY pulling for SCOPE...
The TWU is ABSOLUTELY pulling for RETIREMENT and HEALTHCARE.
Both IAM and TWU want the best retirement PACKAGE for members. Whether that is PENSION or 401K MATCH or Combo of BOTH..
BOTH Also WANT best MEDICAL that can be negotiated.

Are you at the negotiating table? Because we sure do not see or hear this on the floor.
Piss Poor communication by The Association.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

PIEDMONT784 said: ↑
The Company is pitting the TWU/LAA and IAM/LUS workgroups against each other. Of course, there are posters right here that not only know this, but assist in perpetuating it...


The Association is doing a pretty good job themselves of the very same thing.
They are clueless on how to play OFFENSE. All they do is REACT to the latest Company Video whatever it is.
The Company is way out front in the propaganda war and "The Association" is ALWAYS playing catch up.
The Company has The Association on its Heels and The Association STILL has not figured out how to wage a propaganda war effectively.

Here's a free tip: Layout the complete proposal for everyone to see and stop this stupid secrecy position. The truth will win out where ever it falls at.

Secrecy breeds MISTRUST!

 

[NYer]

40% would greatly effect TWU
Company proposes 40% of ALL employees. (Ft and pt)
Assoc proposed better language to lower pt total. ( Could be 40% of just FT compliment, or could actually go higher percentage of FT and STILL get a decrease in pt)
Example: Assoc proposal... 40% of FT......with approx 17,000 fleet
#s would be approx..12,000 FT and 4,800 PT (round figures)
45% of FT ....would be 11,800 Ft and 5,300 pt
( round figures)
Company proposal.
40% of total employees ( 17,000 ) would be
Would be approx 10,200 FT and 6,800 PT

So. According to this the issue isn't the 40%, it's how to reach or count the 40%.

 

[Racer X]

So. According to this the issue isn't the 40%, it's how to reach or count the 40%.

Not necessarily...I don’t believe the 40% is set in stone....with the number of 40 % of All employees There are a few ways to reach improvements. ...40% of FT employees would be an improvement....
But even a higher percentage of FT ( say 45% )
Would be an improvement also.
The other way to get an improvement ( though I haven’t heard this as an option) is to lower the 40% of ALL employees to say...35% of ALL employees ( or lower )
So I think the door is still open on this.
What is clear is that the assoc wants to improve FT/PT ratio................ the company , not so much

 

[Tim Nelson]

Update

Things the Company isn't saying in their jetnet garbage:

For TWU employees, potentially many hundreds forced to PT or transfer to hold FT, no former closed cities opened unless represented by IAM currently, lavs and water now when and where directed work, Core Insurance plan rates were lowered for this year only per Company.

You can believe it or not, but we are fighting as an Association to not accept. The IAM NC is in this for all of us including TWU represented employees.

P. Rez

Prez, what are you referencing? We have been told that there will be no displacements PERIOD. When asked we were told that if someone is full time, such person will not be displaced to part time AT HIS/HER station. You are saying that TWU members will be reduced to part time. That is contradictive to what the company is communicating with us. Not calling you a liar but both you and the company can't be telling the truth. Kindly give us the language you are referencing otherwise it's all bull chit from you and/or the company. Sorry.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

I’ve said this before Piedmont and I’ll say it again. I don’t think the Company Census takers count most if anyone who posts here? The AA threads have a max of around a dozen regular posters and only a tiny fraction of that number have even come out with who they are publicly.

It’s become basically nothing more than a place where a few ghosts can throw rocks from behind trees to I guess make them feel better about themselves or something? And a place to pass a little bit of the boredom of the day.

The Forums you remember from years ago is Dead. But man was it good back in its day (Before people left for Facebook)

Weez -- I agree 100%! These forums for fleet have regressed into a political soundboard for ONE individual with questionable motives, and questionable credibility. Basically, this is a GOOD thing because it proves the Collective Intelligence of the Membership sees through these charades.

The end result is less propaganda is getting read, and consequentially passed on as facts. This also telegraphs less sentiment to the company to gather for analytical reasons.

Unfortunately, for the forum publisher, that 's how it is in a social media platform open to the public.