American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

the numbers i ask for are numbers from the aa side, what they pay now and what they have twice proposed. total compensation. aa claims their 2nd proposal equates to $76,234 per TOS fsc yearly - not counting PS and insurance electives?

not what the assoc. is asking for.

You lost me here?

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't have any connections. There are people who post here and do though. I will say I would like to at least vote on something before having to enter into Section 6. I do agree with NYer that we will be better off if we at least have a vote. I am still more no than yes. Although I am less no that I was before with the first company public proposal.

As a TWU member my main concern is Scope and the PT ratio. I would pretty much be ok with the higher of UA or DL plus 3% and with the return of a meaningful shift diff. I still think that is the least AA can do wagewise unless they sweeten the PS. If PS stays the same, I think we should at least get 5% right? The DL plus 7 was before we got any PS I think? Now we get a small profit sharing so maybe split the baby?

Nice post.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You lost me here?

the total compensation package. what aa spends now on fleet service and what they have proposed.

this will tell us exactly how cost-neutral/cost-negative they are.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thks..finally we can agree...he's a rescue...a 3 yr old pit/terrier mix

Put my buddy down 4 years ago at 14. It still hurts. Guinness.




Then 2 years later had to put my Roommate’s big boy Jeter down when he lost his ability to walk.

 

[WeAAsles]

the total compensation package. what aa spends now on fleet service and what they have proposed.

this will tell us exactly how cost-neutral/cost-negative they are.

Ah. But you know they’re going to include what they project to dole out in buyouts and they also want to add in what they gave us in 2016.

I don’t think the numbers would come out as a perfect target.

They’re up front costs would absolutely rise but they would come down big time through the buyouts if they got rid of 5000 people.

In Fleet I’d guess at least 1000 would grab it so that’s 1000 TOS people out.

Anyway you and I both would like to see all those numbers and they’re breakdowns but I bet it’s a decent amount of paperwork.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

As a TWU member my main concern is Scope and the PT ratio. I would pretty much be ok with the higher of UA or DL plus 3% and with the return of a meaningful shift diff. I still think that is the least AA can do wagewise unless they sweeten the PS. If PS stays the same, I think we should at least get 5% right? The DL plus 7 was before we got any PS I think? Now we get a small profit sharing so maybe split the baby?

- since ua will pass dl in hourly wages in december, it has to be '3%' more than ua. deal-breaker for me if not.

- shift differential is coming back. company is offering .51/.58/.61 cents, for 2nd/3rd/relief shifts, respectively.

the company doesn't want to have anything to do with sharing more of it's profits. add the insurance and scope, the company is getting off cheap with the above, considering an era of unprecedented profits.

this is the wheel valve to turn going into section 6 if the company doesn't yield on anything.

this is why i've felt that $32.50/hr on DOS and $36/hr TOS - both without differential, is my wage red-line.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

In Fleet I’d guess at least 1000 would grab it so that’s 1000 TOS people out.

i don't see that number. i believe 6 figures, $100k, hits the psychological spot. the same psychology that explains 71 y/o fscs still working, not collecting a $2500 monthly pension if they retired.

some are afraid of post-retirement, some don't want their ex-wives to collect half their pension, others are afraid they will die 6 months after they retire...

if the company does consider TOS dead-weight, they need to up the amount if they want people to leave.

 

[WeAAsles]

- since ua will pass dl in hourly wages in december, it has to be '3%' more than ua. deal-breaker for me if not.

- shift differential is coming back. company is offering .51/.58/.61 cents, for 2nd/3rd/relief shifts, respectively.

the company doesn't want to have anything to do with sharing more of it's profits. add the insurance and scope, the company is getting off cheap with the above, considering an era of unprecedented profits.

this is the wheel valve to turn going into section 6 if the company doesn't yield on anything.

this is why i've felt that $32.50/hr on DOS and $36/hr TOS - both without differential, is my wage red-line.

Your $32.50 is 4% above the UAL December wage of $31.23.

 

[WeAAsles]

i don't see that number. i believe 6 figures, $100k, hits the psychological spot. the same psychology that explains 71 y/o fscs still working, not collecting a $2500 monthly pension if they retired.

some are afraid of post-retirement, some don't want their ex-wives to collect half their pension, others are afraid they will die 6 months after they retire...

if the company does consider TOS dead-weight, they need to up the amount if they want people to leave.

I got to be honest on this one. I doubt the Company is going to offer any more than that one years pay offer to leave.

We have a decent amount of people from Latin America. Jamaica and Haiti that have already told me they’d jump on it.

Maybe not as many Caucasians will jump on it cause they don’t want to try an out of the Country adventure. But there’d be takers.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Your $32.50 is 4% above the UAL December wage of $31.23.

correct, i did the math after NYer suggested 3% more than ua's dec. raise, with 2.5% a year going forward.

if we get the predicted additional, last sweetener, i believe we will hit that $32.50/hr...so, 3% more than united is moot.

i was telling gulfcoast that dl is now out of the equation and the 3% more than dl, is a deal-breaker for me. it HAS to be at least 3% more than ua. if it is indeed 'just' 3% more than ua on DOS, now i expect an enhanced 401k contribution.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I got to be honest on this one. I doubt the Company is going to offer any more than that one years pay offer to leave.

We have a decent amount of people from Latin America. Jamaica and Haiti that have already told me they’d jump on it.

Maybe not as many Caucasians will jump on it cause they don’t want to try an out of the Country adventure. But there’d be takers.

sounds like there would be a lot of movement in mia.

 

[WeAAsles]

correct, i did the math after NYer suggested 3% more than ua's dec. raise, with 2.5% a year going forward.

if we get the predicted additional, last sweetener, i believe we will hit that $32.50/hr...so, 3% more than united is moot.

i was telling gulfcoast that dl is now out of the equation and the 3% more than dl, is a deal-breaker for me. it HAS to be at least 3% more than ua. if it is indeed 'just' 3% more than ua on DOS, now i expect an enhanced 401k contribution.

So let me get this straight and I feel like I’m now on Shark Tank or something. Your (Financial) expectations are 4% above Dec UAL DOS with 2.5% per year x 5 with an enhanced 401k at the 9% Match or more than 9%?

And for me I’m only going to telegraph what I’m not going to accept and will give a no vote to, and AA’s current “online” offer is an absolute no from me.

 

[cltrat]

Rusty how about you provide a link to a good contract the IBT has ever done for an airline? I’ll be waiting

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So let me get this straight and I feel like I’m now on Shark Tank or something. Your (Financial) expectations are 4% above Dec UAL DOS with 2.5% per year x 5 with an enhanced 401k at the 9% Match or more than 9%?

And for me I’m only going to telegraph what I’m not going to accept and will give a no vote to, and AA’s current “online” offer is an absolute no from me.

well, i never, ever talked in terms of 3% or 7% more than this airline or that. i had just posted how i was told in 2001 that 3% was/is the norm for 'asking'. i was firmly at $32.50 DOS, without differential. as it turns out, we'll 'probably' get there, IF the wages are additionally sweetened one last time.

if aa goes with 3% more than ua ($32.17/hr) on DOS and claims the 3% more than ua is sweeter than 3% more than dl, then i certainly want more in regards to 401k.

what aa proposes now, combined contribution (5%) and match (4%), is not industry leading as far as percentages. with the wage increases, yes, the total package will be more per clerk.

regardless, give me 6% contribution and 5% match and i'll be content with 3% more than ua.

a 1% bump on each comes to about $52 ($26 for each based on $2,614 for 80 hours x $32.17) per check. $104 a month more.

 

[Racer X]

If it's a last offer the pressure for the Association mounts as going into Section 6 adds months or years to the process and the airline can systematically pull back from their current positions, the NMB could freeze us while other airlines pass us by in wages and the frustration levels rise which can make getting a worse deal possible.

The Association can come back with a TA and have a no recommendation saying if the TA is defeated it helps us in Section 6, which could be true.

If it falls short, it shouldn’t come out