American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

we accrued another 9 years of pension time, by not filing.

i did lose $1,000 month off my pension, compared to aa not filing & freezing and me retiring at age 62.

but, if aa terminated the pension in 2003, i'd probably be getting $400 month from pbgc in the future and we'd have many more 71 y/o fscs limping around the ramp.

i voted no, but it didn't matter. i remember they made the flight attendants vote twice, until they got it right.

Because I spent 2 years as PT I probably would have been barely vested and maybe would have received $100 a month for all I know?

 

[WeAAsles]

DCA - IAM
ATL- TWU
MCO- TWU
What are the odds of a 2 downline station local? 0%
So it's gonna happen just not sure when, but please let it be soon

It will probably go down to 5 Locals although it would be economically smarter to go down to 3 like the Mechanics did?

BOS will be a weird one. All that fighting to get to the point they did for them to keep it and now it rolls over into a Satellite.

Their President “Tim the honorable guy Hughes” seems ok with it though.

 

[B737 driver]

We have asked and talked to them. 99% say they were forced to strike by the co. because they were wanting to fire over 53% of the workforce. They also say, At least AMFA fought instead of caving in to the co's demands. When a co. is asking for over 53% of the workforce you are just asking for an overwhelming strike vote. It was all planned out by NWA management. What they found out was that it all did not turn out like they planned and NWA now no longer exist. You have no case to rest driver. Nice try though...

I do have a case stupid they kicked out the IAM certified AMFA, went from 10,000 mechanics, used AMFA language you could drive a truck through with the IRAQ war in 2003. I had friends that had 1000 mechanics under them, and they chased Jobs until the strike came in 2005. By the time AMFA was decertified they had 1800. AT United Airlines kicked out for allowing contracted out work, voted by mechanics they were laid off from United., and ones that were still there. They were at United from 2003 to 2008. So you see Swampy AMFA is fine at a healthy company, but they totally suck at a bankrupt company. Plus you never call for a Strike when management has replacement workers ready to go for 14 months. That AMFA had complete knowledge of. But this is American board , they know the history of AMFA! 🙂

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Because I spent 2 years as PT I probably would have been barely vested and maybe would have received $100 a month for all I know?

ua had a lead, maybe t5towbar knew him, al bern-a-doobie. through the years, poor guy got screwed over by ua's esop (401k money for company stock that went bk) AND ua's pension termination.

he just retired months ago...had to work to age 70+ as a lead because he had lost his retirement monies.

poor ua guys and others getting nickles on the dollar from the pbgc, while aa will pay us dimes on the dollar.

in retrospect, aa did the wrong thing, for itself, and we won't have it as bad.

 

[WeAAsles]

ua had a lead, maybe t5towbar knew him, al bern-a-doobie. through the years, poor guy got screwed over by ua's esop (401k money for company stock that went bk) AND ua's pension termination.

he just retired months ago...had to work to age 70+ as a lead because he had lost his retirement monies.

poor ua guys and others getting nickles on the dollar from the pbgc, while aa will pay us dimes on the dollar.

in retrospect, aa did the wrong thing, for itself, and we won't have it as bad.

Thankfully a big thing I learned early enough on working in this Industry is NOT to keep all your eggs in one basket. It’s like some of these people freaking out about the IAMPF. Who cares. Is that all they’re invested in or would have their investments going towards? That’s nuts.

Another example is all these guys who worry about taking an early out cause they couldn’t afford COBRA or if the “Company” offered them a FULL PRICE Medical option. Jeez Louise man. There is a World outside of our Employers.

 

[WeAAsles]

ua had a lead, maybe t5towbar knew him, al bern-a-doobie. through the years, poor guy got screwed over by ua's esop (401k money for company stock that went bk) AND ua's pension termination.

he just retired months ago...had to work to age 70+ as a lead because he had lost his retirement monies.

poor ua guys and others getting nickles on the dollar from the pbgc, while aa will pay us dimes on the dollar.

in retrospect, aa did the wrong thing, for itself, and we won't have it as bad.

BTW many SWA employees made out like bandits on their ESOP. Hey it’s all just a role of the dice if you’re not going to try to read the tea leaves out there.

Too many fit the profile of that Carlin video I posted on the other thread unfortunately I guess.

 

[swamt]

I do have a case stupid they kicked out the IAM certified AMFA, went from 10,000 mechanics, used AMFA language you could drive a truck through with the IRAQ war in 2003. I had friends that had 1000 mechanics under them, and they chased Jobs until the strike came in 2005. By the time AMFA was decertified they had 1800. AT United Airlines kicked out for allowing contracted out work, voted by mechanics they were laid off from United., and ones that were still there. They were at United from 2003 to 2008. So you see Swampy AMFA is fine at a healthy company, but they totally suck at a bankrupt company. Plus you never call for a Strike when management has replacement workers ready to go for 14 months. That AMFA had complete knowledge of. But this is American board , they know the history of AMFA! 🙂

Not quite there skippy. AMFA took over the IAM contract at United. It was not nego by AMFA it was inherited, just like here when AMFA took over the teamsters contract here language in which the co used to outsource to Canada and El Salvador. That was teamsters language not AMFA's. Then the teamsters lied their a$$es off to get in there and never did they come thru with one single promise that they promised the membership, not one. Why they are still there baffles most of us as well as them.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

The IAMNPF is covered by the PBGC please learn before you post and don't give bad info

Dude, virtually ALL pensions are coverd by the PBGC... "IF" the plan is turned over to them. There are NO plans for the IAMNPF to be turned over to the PBGC.

This like saying that since all US Companies are covered by Federal Bankruptcy Laws -- all US Companies will eventually go bankrupt!

Talk about driving square pegs into round holes....

>SPIT<

 

[Tim Nelson]

We have asked and talked to them. 99% say they were forced to strike by the co. because they were wanting to fire over 53% of the workforce. They also say, At least AMFA fought instead of caving in to the co's demands. When a co. is asking for over 53% of the workforce you are just asking for an overwhelming strike vote. It was all planned out by NWA management. What they found out was that it all did not turn out like they planned and NWA now no longer exist. You have no case to rest driver. Nice try though...

AMFA failed, in that case because there was another path they could have chosen instead of taking managements gun and pulling the trigger.
To be sure, I think amfa has been a fairly solid union, but they made a painful mistake at NWA.

Under the RLA, once there is a release, a union can pick the time to strike. The company cant lock you out if you dont strike.
The company can impose its last contract offer and would have. That would have been painful for the members but fighting doesnt come without damage.

Amfa should have kept on the job and kept that immediate strike option. The risk of an immediate strike or wildcat at any base at any time would have been painful for investors.
The teamsters were successful with this strategy at Pan Am after all the other work groups took cuts and didnt support the Independent IBT of 1989.
So the company took the ibt on and was somewhat shocked the teamsters decided to stay on the job. The company immediately imposed an awful contract but it could only get high risk interest rates on loans since they had 5,000 Pax service, cargo, res agents who could do anything they wanted, whether wildcat or strike or sitdown.
The IBT eventually got a contract that actually had pay raises and decent things. All after pan am sold off the pacific.

At any rate, the moral to the story is that it has been a good strategy by a union that lacks support from other unions, to wait and dont blow that wad at midnight when management knows you are walking. Hell, keep that bullet and use it when the company is in a more bind. Like Thanksgiving.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I will tell you this about AMFA they talk a good game. If they are at a healthy company they can get you a descent contract. But if your company gets in trouble they will fight to the last day. Instead of working with management. They have no strike fund. Most of the dues money goes to the lawfirm Seham. Everytime you suggest to try to shop for a new lawfirm you will be shot down. It takes forever to get a full blown contract done. You guys would be better off, starting an independent mechanics union, ran by American Airlines mechanics, plus whatever work group you want to put in there. Just like our pilots have SWAPA.

The best ramp union was ROPA. An independent at swa. Had the best contract.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Dude, virtually ALL pensions are coverd by the PBGC... "IF" the plan is turned over to them. There are NO plans for the IAMNPF to be turned over to the PBGC.

This like saying that since all US Companies are covered by Federal Bankruptcy Laws -- all US Companies will eventually go bankrupt!

Talk about driving square pegs into round holes....

>SPIT<

actually, there is a concern about the pbgc.
Thats why Martinez went to capital hill trying to force the pension employers to double their funding requirements for pbgc insurance which is currently 7%.

Remember, the pbgc guarantee for union pensions is NOT publicly funded and its hourglass gets depleted by 2022 if nothing is done. So thats zero guarantee.

Congress told unions to go F themselves 2 years ago so Obama hosed over the union members by approving new rules that favor the pension bosses even more than company bosses by allowing union pension bosses to whack current checks of retirees up to 50% unless the retirees age is 81.
We are hosed and the only life jacket is to merge the Grand Lodge Plan into the iamnpf.

 

[737823]

actually, there is a concern about the pbgc.
Thats why Martinez went to capital hill trying to force the pension employers to double their funding requirements for pbgc insurance which is currently 7%.

Remember, the pbgc guarantee for union pensions is NOT publicly funded and its hourglass gets depleted by 2022 if nothing is done. So thats zero guarantee.

Congress told unions to go F themselves 2 years ago so Obama hosed over the union members by approving new rules that favor the pension bosses even more than company bosses by allowing union pension bosses to whack current checks of retirees up to 50% unless the retirees age is 81.
We are hosed and the only life jacket is to merge the Grand Lodge Plan into the iamnpf.

Tim as you stated no way the cushy Grand Lodge pensión would merge with the IAMNPF. The GL pension provides rich benefits, is well funded for the few who draw very cushy benefits from it.

Josh

 

[PIEDMONT784]

actually, there is a concern about the pbgc.
Thats why Martinez went to capital hill trying to force the pension employers to double their funding requirements for pbgc insurance which is currently 7%.

Remember, the pbgc guarantee for union pensions is NOT publicly funded and its hourglass gets depleted by 2022 if nothing is done. So thats zero guarantee.

Congress told unions to go F themselves 2 years ago so Obama hosed over the union members by approving new rules that favor the pension bosses even more than company bosses by allowing union pension bosses to whack current checks of retirees up to 50% unless the retirees age is 81.
We are hosed and the only life jacket is to merge the Grand Lodge Plan into the iamnpf.

Again... the PBGC is NOT part of the IAMNPF--- quit trying to connect dots that are miles apart!
The only "truth" to your argument is that "hypothetically" the PBGC could have to absorb the IAM pension. The word COULD is true among anything...
There COULD, hypothetically be a multiverse where at least one, has a duplicate Earth that is ruled exclusively by Tim Nelson... hypothetically this is possible...

However, here in this universe, Tim Nelson has difficulty selling his goods!

>SPIT<

 

[737823]

It may be old but accurate.

Bob, this changed nearly two years ago:

http://www.usaamerger.com/2016/09/12/association-boston-agreement/

Initially BOS was going it to be all IAM. Local 507 is one of the oldest locals and the headcount is very close. This was part of the major impasse in late 2014 after LUS stand-alone got ratified before the a$$ could begin “reconciling” agreements and obtained NMB certification (without the vote as communicated initially).

Josh

 

[NYer]

we accrued another 9 years of pension time, by not filing.

i did lose $1,000 month off my pension, compared to aa not filing & freezing and me retiring at age 62.

but, if aa terminated the pension in 2003, i'd probably be getting $400 month from pbgc in the future and we'd have many more 71 y/o fscs limping around the ramp.

i voted no, but it didn't matter. i remember they made the flight attendants vote twice, until they got it right.

Kudos. Most miss the fact we were able to keep the pension accruing for another decade...