American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

well, many fscs really didn't lose 'that much'...those that already had around 30 years or so at the time when the pension stopped accruing in 2012. those guys are looking at around $2,400 a month....the same amount i would have gotten at age 62, if aa never filed.

maybe you or NYer can break down the what/why/how come the shares were broken down and given to us...but these guys didn't really lose anything in regards to a pension. $125 a month??

i don't begrudge any of that, but i do get offended that they push for a 'yes' on anything TAed because they fear any hint of a future BK and losing what they didn't lose. no dialogue allowed because i don't want to lose what you lost.

Well we did lose of course because we took huge pay cuts and then lingered at those wages for another 13 years. Our Pension took a hit because of those wage decreases. (But according to our AMT Posters here we made out like bandits)

Hey and you keep truckin right along Crema. I like the way you think.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

 

[WeAAsles]

the political posts only illustrate to me the effect of corporatism upon the american citizen.

in 1956, during the republican convention where eisenhower was nominated to run again, the republican party:

- bragged that it hiked minimum wage for 2 million low-wage workers.

- bragged that it expanded social security to 10 million more americans and increased benefits for 6.5 million more americans.

- bragged the 2 million more americans had joined unions.

all this during eisenhower's 1st term. eishenhower also cut defense spending by nearly 30% after the korean war and put that money back into the usa. infrastructure and the interstates. we know that the ex-general was a stickler for balancing the budget.

when it comes to workers and the middle-class, i don't recognize any of that as platforms or certainly anything to brag about from today's republican party.

at the same time, the democrats abandoned labor for a higher road? the social politics/identity politics road??

either way, we in labor, have no friends.

Andrew Cuomo for President 2020.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok I only Grossed one income at AA last year since I’m only one person so I’m going to roll with your first numbers then and say $138,000.

Well something is off here then that I’m not getting? TWU is a Socialist Union you claim? How did I only earn HALF what you earned then? I mean it can’t have anything to do with my lack of Education and Job skills right?

Oh and before you say that the Company gave that to you and not TWU, true. But the TWU did need to sign off to accept those raises. Can you explain to me in our Socialist Union why those Bastards didn’t sign off for you and I to make say $85,000 so it’s not so unfair that you made TWICE what I made last year?

Another thing BTW. Did you read the comment by TWU regarding the McCaskill Legislation?

AIRCRAFT MECHANICS AGAIN!!!!! No mention again for us little FLEET SERVICE????? I’m beginning to think the TWU hates us.

We all need a union that is your lawyer to make a contract with the company. If we were all at say $23 an hour, because nobody had a union. The benevolent Delta Airlines or SWA would pay the going rate. Delta gives raises to keep the unions out. With my lead pay at SWA with limited overtime, not killing myself I was at $136,000. If we get this contract voted in, working the same overtime as a lead , be at $150. So with no scope loss it's a no brainer for Some people.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wow wait a minute. How freakin old are you if you want to take me back to 1934 man?

And I don’t care what you guys here on Forums say 100 times cause I’m going to hit the ball back to you 100 times that you only made for some years here and there less than (YOUR PEERS) (Your peer always being Michael Jordon to you) because you had far more JOBS. Under other Airlines you may not have stayed in Tulsa and could have wound up in JFK but that don’t matter right.

I don’t like what you make? WTF seriously is wrong with you? I don’t give 2 chits what you make. I’m glad you’re well compensated. I hope one day you can figure out in your own mind that you’re doing ok and can find your own economic happiness. I DON’T like how some of you guys think if I make LESS you can make MORE though. For you Mechanics (maybe not you) who think that way “FU” Seriously “FU” Keep your Greedy chitty hands out of MY pockets you S Bag F’s. (Many of your guys DO think that way Buck)

BTW if TWU is such a complete Socialist Union under Samuelsen then explain to me why the guy can’t stand the Mayor of NYC Bill Deblasio? A REAL Socialist or maybe even Communist?

Oh and yea TWU is a NYC Union with a NYC attitude. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

BTW Buck I need some more spin from ya. Answer a question for me. Some of your Mechanics think FSC is holding them back, riding their coattails and siphoning from their pockets.

AMFA doesn’t represent Fleet at SWA. Why are the Clerks over there doing so great money wise?

Delta doesn’t have Unions and Kev makes quite a bit more than me with his Benefits and PS. Why is he doing so great money wise?

IBT represents Mechanics at UAL. Why are the IAM represented Clerks over there doing so well financially?

I just don’t get at these other airlines why they don’t take from the Bag Chunkers and pass that money onto the Mechanics? WTF?

 

[WeAAsles]

We all need a union that is your lawyer to make a contract with the company. If we were all at say $23 an hour, because nobody had a union. The benevolent Delta Airlines or SWA would pay the going rate. Delta gives raises to keep the unions out. With my lead pay at SWA with limited overtime, not killing myself I was at $136,000. If we get this contract voted in, working the same overtime as a lead , be at $150. So with no scope loss it's a no brainer for Some people.

So you make around the same as Buck with OT and your Rampers make the same as me.

Something is weird? How is this possible?

My TWU is doing a really chitty job taking from our Mechanics to pass on to me then.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Well we did lose of course because we took huge pay cuts and then lingered at those wages for another 13 years. Our Pension took a hit because of those wage decreases. (But according to our AMT Posters here we made out like bandits)

Hey and you keep truckin right along Crema. I like the way you think.

the wage cuts occurred in 2003. our wages weren't touched due to 2011's bk? i don't believe so.

most of our pensions certainly took a hit due to 2011 bk.

my question is: if any of the equity shares were given as a result of the pension getting cut, why did those who's pensions really didn't get hit, get more shares than you and me?

 

[WeAAsles]

the wage cuts occurred in 2003. our wages weren't touched due to 2011's bk? i don't believe so.

most of our pensions certainly took a hit due to 2011 bk.

my question is: if any of the equity shares were given as a result of the pension getting cut, why did those who's pensions really didn't get hit, get more shares than you and me?

Our Pensions were based on a 6.25% Multiplier of our wages. So yea it absolutely hit our future payouts from May 1 2003 on.

Because the Pension was 6.25% guaranteed and the 401k Match exchange was a concession.

Off to work. TTYL.

 

[Tim Nelson]

PBGC funding is now nothing more than a national political problem, as is Social Security, and Medicare, which are slated to become insolvent as well. Those issues have as much relevance as your detached PBGC argument, as there is nothing that can be done in Labor Negotiations to correct it.
As I said... this is a national political issue, and will have to resolved in future congressional and general elections, OUTSIDE of Airline/Union scope...

Attempting to correlate the PBGC with IAMNPF was an intentional slight of hand that has become your hallmark. You would have NEVER let readers here know the difference, if I had not called you out! Fortunately, everyone reading nere now knows that you operate for political and divisive reasons.

'Everyone'... except of course a handful of your digital sock-puppets that parrot your sentiment, and swoop into the forum in your support, and defense.

>SPIT<

huh?
Look, if you want to detach the pbgc away from the sinking iam pension then you also have to say there is no guarantee and our pensions will all be zero in 15 years after a couple more benefit curs first. Thank you for finally admitting that the pension is a ponzie scheme like SS.The difference is that our pension has been run by a moron who was buffys buddy. The investment losses are staggering still. Never mind the looting for lavish trips and $1600 bottle of wine.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim as you stated no way the cushy Grand Lodge pensión would merge with the IAMNPF. The GL pension provides rich benefits, is well funded for the few who draw very cushy benefits from it.

Josh

we have to look into merging the officers plan with the members plan. The members deserve it. After we win the election, alot will change for the good. Sito has tossed in his hat against martinez so its goin to be a 3 way battle.

 

[B737 driver]

So you make around the same as Buck with OT and your Rampers make the same as me.

Something is weird? How is this possible?

My TWU is doing a really chitty job taking from our Mechanics to pass on to me then.

It's because we get it, all unions are a business and when we all move up, we all benefit. Swampy doesn't get it, because if all his main career is at SWA, they have never experienced bankruptcy. Your TWU and AMFA, and even if we had the Teamsters, would get whatever the going rate is. Airlines are in business to make money, not make us millionaires.

 

[twood]

Below is a link if anyone would like to sign an online petition for the negotiating team to TA the agreement before the September, Section 6 openers in September, 2018.



https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/maintenance-and-related-tentative-agreement.html

 

[WeAAsles]

Below is a link if anyone would like to sign an online petition for the negotiating team to TA the agreement before the September, Section 6 openers in September, 2018.



https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/maintenance-and-related-tentative-agreement.html

You’ve gone YEARS without a significant wage increase?

You got a 24% average wage increase less than 2 years ago and another 2.1% raise just last September.

 

[Jester]

Again... the PBGC is NOT part of the IAMNPF--- quit trying to connect dots that are miles apart!
The only "truth" to your argument is that "hypothetically" the PBGC could have to absorb the IAM pension. The word COULD is true among anything...
There COULD, hypothetically be a multiverse where at least one, has a duplicate Earth that is ruled exclusively by Tim Nelson... hypothetically this is possible...

However, here in this universe, Tim Nelson has difficulty selling his goods!

>SPIT<

If one was to closely examine the IAMNPF through a detailed "stress test" reviewing various ratios, in particular, actuarial liabilities vs. fair market value of existing assets, I strongly suspect the pension as an on-going business would be called into question. In particular, details as to future contributions with a shrinking work force base and increasing numbers of retirees would very likely negatively impact future payments or even the viability of pension as to lead to its demise.

You may question the aforementioned paragraph, but let us not deceive ourselves into thinking nothing to be wrong, as the only reason the IAMNPF not to be on the "critical list" would be due to the large cuts to benefits to future retirees over the last few years. The trend as not been good, especially as the pension largely missed-out in the roaring stock market in the past decade. Should this be proven to be the case, then the long-term financial security of the PBGC would need to be considered within our retirement planning and the expected substantial cuts to workers' pensions.

 

[Jester]

Then go read somewhere else... or read THIS -- https://401kspecialistmag.com/6-reasons-401k-scam-wait/#.WxqXjO4vyM8

And this -- https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/13/four-reasons-why-your-401k-may-be-a-giant-rip-off.html

What nonsense, at least, as it relates to those involved with this board, as even according to your link...
"However, small businesses generally don't have the same bargaining power as employers with large retirement plans. In 2014, plans with less than $10 million in assets cost 1.02 percent, while plans with over $1 billion in assets cost 0.30 percent..."

Somehow I suspect AA, DL and SW (and whoever other employee groups visiting this board) do not fall under the category of "small businesses". Was this part of your on-going attempts to obfuscate and become deliberately obtuse, thus garner support for a pension which has already slashed future retiree benefits by over 30%?

To be sure huge fees and expenses are a major issue in the lucrative 401k retirement business, but let's not automatically assume that means retirement savings outside of a pension to automatically become a "giant rip-off"-- especially as your beloved IAMNPF has hardly been devoid of questionable spending and professional fees.