American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[737823]

737 Josh when the IAM enter into McGee and UGE are you questioning what they negotiate for wages, causing government dependency? What do you feel is the going marketing rates for these type Jobs. I remember when I first got my A&P while in the Navy, when I got out McDonnell Douglas wanted to hire me in Long Beach only starting at $10 an hour. United at Oakland starting at $13. But I choose the Midway Airlines in Chicago , because they started me at $15. What United and M/D wanted to pay, you couldn't make it in California. I consider myself a moderate, there needs to be reforms yes. But there also needs to be a balance between Capitalism and greed that drives prices up, especially on the medical side where people can't afford it. Perfect example if you look up these cancer drugs they advertise on T.V., they are anywhere, such as Keytruda $13,000 to $15,000 a month.

Thank you for your service to our country first and foremost.

My point is two fold:
1) It’s a shame so many are dependent on the government to provide for them and entitlement programs are not an efficient way to help people truly in need. Better results come when people turn to their family, church/synagogue/house of worship than the state. I agree these need to exist as a safety net but in their current form they are horribly ineffective, there is large scale abuse and it is bankrupting our nation.

2) As for McGee/UGE etc. Union leaders have degraded what was once a proud union job that afforded a solid middle class lifestyle. They’ve given the union seal of approval to low wage, low benefit high turnover jobs through creative schemes like voluntary recognition. Those CBAs are full with language like “according to company policy” and “at the discretion of management” that effectively give the company free will to do as they please while the union collects dues. What value does the membership receive? Someone would be better off working at B6 or DL ready reserve than McGee or UGE.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

So next week some of our guys will be meeting with the Company for what’s been described as “minor issues” and Robert Isom is having a Town Hall in LAX on Friday.

 

[B737 driver]

Thank you for your service to our country first and foremost.

My point is two fold:
1) It’s a shame so many are dependent on the government to provide for them and entitlement programs are not an efficient way to help people truly in need. Better results come when people turn to their family, church/synagogue/house of worship than the state. I agree these need to exist as a safety net but in their current form they are horribly ineffective, there is large scale abuse and it is bankrupting our nation.

2) As for McGee/UGE etc. Union leaders have degraded what was once a proud union job that afforded a solid middle class lifestyle. They’ve given the union seal of approval to low wage, low benefit high turnover jobs through creative schemes like voluntary recognition. Those CBAs are full with language like “according to company policy” and “at the discretion of management” that effectively give the company free will to do as they please while the union collects dues. What value does the membership receive? Someone would be better off working at B6 or DL ready reserve than McGee or UGE.

Josh

Now I understand.

 

[737823]

As I’ve said before, unions always have enough resources and mobilization to oppose things like right to work laws that limit their ability to collect dues and compromise the viability of the institution but they’ve stood by as the assault on works has persisted for half a century no matter who is in elected office and how a particular court rules.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

May 25, 2018

OUR JOBS ARE NOT FOR SALE

“On March 21st, the Association leadership told American that their proposals regarding medical insurance, wages, retirement security, work/job protection and profit sharing were not acceptable. American management then began their failing strategy of negotiating in public, trying to convince American workers to accept their substandard offer. Your strength and solidarity has worked. American has thrown some money on the table even while we are not in negotiations. Keep telling the company to shove their inadequate proposals that outsource work, take away healthcare and weaken retirement. Tell them to get back to the table”

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I don't know that they have abandoned us so much as taken our vote for granted.

i believe that in many cases, gray areas are created by those who wish to muddy the waters.

lots of democrats have tried to hide their tracks..the facts stare us in the face.

i'm not a huge conspiracy theorist believer, but yes, wealthy & powerful people with common agenda(s) get together and try to solidify & increase their power and wealth.

the powell memorandum is simply something dreamed of and subsequently implemented by those (elite and corporate america) denied to them by previous times of an economic depression, war and the communist threat.

clinton (i don't blame him for nafta) was lukewarm towards labor, making hay in a state that is anti-labor. his wife eventually had a seat on the board of wal-mart and later on, was for the tpp, then against the tpp.

money talks...who has all the money?

today, the democratic party will fight for an illegal immigrant transsexual to stay in this country and marry his pet parakeet, but didn't lift a finger to fight right-to-work or even repeal certain parts of taft-hartley (right-to-work).

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thank you for your service to our country first and foremost.

My point is two fold:
1) It’s a shame so many are dependent on the government to provide for them and entitlement programs are not an efficient way to help people truly in need. Better results come when people turn to their family, church/synagogue/house of worship than the state. I agree these need to exist as a safety net but in their current form they are horribly ineffective, there is large scale abuse and it is bankrupting our nation.

2) As for McGee/UGE etc. Union leaders have degraded what was once a proud union job that afforded a solid middle class lifestyle. They’ve given the union seal of approval to low wage, low benefit high turnover jobs through creative schemes like voluntary recognition. Those CBAs are full with language like “according to company policy” and “at the discretion of management” that effectively give the company free will to do as they please while the union collects dues. What value does the membership receive? Someone would be better off working at B6 or DL ready reserve than McGee or UGE.

Josh

Those who aren't pro worker will miss all of your points about McGee. McGee and UGE will devastate and strangle the ramp craft like when the TWU brought in the B scale to get Eagle with automiatic recognition. McGee is about as anti union as anyone could possibly think, yet it was Sito's brainchild. A ready made 12 page contract that was made up of 2 pages that waived civil rights. Alaska airlines argued in the Washington Supreme Court that the $15 Sea-Tac wage was unconstitutional and said that it would have to seek out a union to waive the law, if the law stood. Immediately after Alaska lost its case, it found its suitor, the IAM, and handed it 1,600 members. In return, McGee got a seat on the IAM Health and Welfare board, and a 12 page contract that waived all civil rights to FMLA, and minimum wage. The crime is even deeper since the IAM actually has the certification for mainline rampers at Alaska. These industrial unions are a real joke. Those like Piedmont and Weez who can't admit how wrong it is, are just bias due to personal gain.

 

[Tim Nelson]

On what grounds could you take them to court? Wouldn't they just cite case law precedent?

The case was not unanimous. I believe AMFA put on an incredibly poor presentation and also didn't spend the money to build up the political weight on this case. An outside "Top" law firm must be brought in to win these. Companies go to outside firms, so should unions but the unions don't want to spend the money.

Plus, there are potentially different items which would make your case unique. The IAM raised this at Sprit but then settled when it agreed with the company to contract out all jobs except FLL. The TWU didn't have the time or money to fight for Frontier. And the Teamsters sold out the Republic Pax service and ramp for the stews contract. In all 3 cases, the union cut deals or didn't fight, and workers got greatly hosed.

Immediately Delta would contract out all cargo and contract out pretty much everything other than ATL and maybe another station where it can't quite contract everyone out so easily (Low unemployment) but it most certainly will change your wages immediately (See AMFA case as well where this happened prior to getting whacked), and overtime rules. I think in AMFA's case, as soon as the group voted in AMFA, after 1 negotiating session AMFA said there was an impasse. And the company cut wages, 401k, and overtime rules immediately thereafter.

I mean it will be a complete bloodbath for years if you guys actually voted in the IAM, but the IAM has shown that it is all talk and will sell workers out in a heartbeat, possibly snagging ATL only at Delta, or JFK only at JetBlue. But in each case, it's all about the dues and any TA under Sito won't have any teeth.

Like I said, I don't see any evidence to suggest that most Delta or JetBlue agents would be out of a job immediately, if they voted in the IAM. Those that remain will have a serous cut in wages/benefits as I think Delta will mobilize quickly as it is about as anti union as all hell.

But if the ramp organizing team still wanted to press forward, I would organize it after getting their consent by fully disclosing the forecast but also with the potential to win a court case a few years later to get us back to the table. But the union leadership would have to fight this and sink in tons of money. I will. Sito has already proven he won't.

 

[ALUS78]

The case was not unanimous. I believe AMFA put on an incredibly poor presentation and also didn't spend the money to build up the political weight on this case. An outside "Top" law firm must be brought in to win these. Companies go to outside firms, so should unions but the unions don't want to spend the money.

Plus, there are potentially different items which would make your case unique. The IAM raised this at Sprit but then settled when it agreed with the company to contract out all jobs except FLL. The TWU didn't have the time or money to fight for Frontier. And the Teamsters sold out the Republic Pax service and ramp for the stews contract. In all 3 cases, the union cut deals or didn't fight, and workers got greatly hosed.

Immediately Delta would contract out all cargo and contract out pretty much everything other than ATL and maybe another station where it can't quite contract everyone out so easily (Low unemployment) but it most certainly will change your wages immediately (See AMFA case as well where this happened prior to getting whacked), and overtime rules. I think in AMFA's case, as soon as the group voted in AMFA, after 1 negotiating session AMFA said there was an impasse. And the company cut wages, 401k, and overtime rules immediately thereafter.

I mean it will be a complete bloodbath for years if you guys actually voted in the IAM, but the IAM has shown that it is all talk and will sell workers out in a heartbeat, possibly snagging ATL only at Delta, or JFK only at JetBlue. But in each case, it's all about the dues and any TA under Sito won't have any teeth.

Like I said, I don't see any evidence to suggest that most Delta or JetBlue agents would be out of a job immediately, if they voted in the IAM. Those that remain will have a serous cut in wages/benefits as I think Delta will mobilize quickly as it is about as anti union as all hell.

But if the ramp organizing team still wanted to press forward, I would organize it after getting their consent by fully disclosing the forecast but also with the potential to win a court case a few years later to get us back to the table. But the union leadership would have to fight this and sink in tons of money. I will. Sito has already proven he won't.

Tim will the company be giving Sito an ultimatum this week?Why doesnt Sito want anyone else at the meeting?

 

[B737 driver]

The case was not unanimous. I believe AMFA put on an incredibly poor presentation and also didn't spend the money to build up the political weight on this case. An outside "Top" law firm must be brought in to win these. Companies go to outside firms, so should unions but the unions don't want to spend the money.

Plus, there are potentially different items which would make your case unique. The IAM raised this at Sprit but then settled when it agreed with the company to contract out all jobs except FLL. The TWU didn't have the time or money to fight for Frontier. And the Teamsters sold out the Republic Pax service and ramp for the stews contract. In all 3 cases, the union cut deals or didn't fight, and workers got greatly hosed.

Immediately Delta would contract out all cargo and contract out pretty much everything other than ATL and maybe another station where it can't quite contract everyone out so easily (Low unemployment) but it most certainly will change your wages immediately (See AMFA case as well where this happened prior to getting whacked), and overtime rules. I think in AMFA's case, as soon as the group voted in AMFA, after 1 negotiating session AMFA said there was an impasse. And the company cut wages, 401k, and overtime rules immediately thereafter.

I mean it will be a complete bloodbath for years if you guys actually voted in the IAM, but the IAM has shown that it is all talk and will sell workers out in a heartbeat, possibly snagging ATL only at Delta, or JFK only at JetBlue. But in each case, it's all about the dues and any TA under Sito won't have any teeth.

Like I said, I don't see any evidence to suggest that most Delta or JetBlue agents would be out of a job immediately, if they voted in the IAM. Those that remain will have a serous cut in wages/benefits as I think Delta will mobilize quickly as it is about as anti union as all hell.

But if the ramp organizing team still wanted to press forward, I would organize it after getting their consent by fully disclosing the forecast but also with the potential to win a court case a few years later to get us back to the table. But the union leadership would have to fight this and sink in tons of money. I will. Sito has already proven he won't.

Delta has a big operation in Salt Lake city and Cincinnati, so any big hubs the union would keep, because of the sheer numbers at the hubs.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Delta has a big operation in Salt Lake city and Cincinnati, so any big hubs the union would keep, because of the sheer numbers at the hubs.

The union won't keep a soul unless Delta says ok. Originally, all will be contracted out. I think even ATL but it's such a jobs base that the employees may be given jobs at DGS or maybe they keep them in ATL but cut their pay down to $15. But definitely cargo and all small stations will be gone immediately. ATL, SLC, CVG will have serious consequences. The Industrial unions just aren't strong enough anymore as their leaderships are really simply not Labor leaders. The Union leaders today are just opportunitist in a secret society and just move up through the ranks. No fight. Nothing.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim will the company be giving Sito an ultimatum this week?Why doesnt Sito want anyone else at the meeting?

The company wants an update from Sito on his election, for sure. But I think the company already gave Sito the final deal which was suppose to get enhanced but I think the company is locking and loading in a more aggressive way now. I don't believe the company wants to wait on Sito's election.

 

[ALUS78]

The company wants an update from Sito on his election, for sure. But I think the company already gave Sito the final deal which was suppose to get enhanced but I think the company is locking and loading in a more aggressive way now. I don't believe the company wants to wait on Sito's election.

So what do you think WE will see out of this meeting?

 

[B737 driver]

The union won't keep a soul unless Delta says ok. Originally, all will be contracted out. I think even ATL but it's such a jobs base that the employees may be given jobs at DGS or maybe they keep them in ATL but cut their pay down to $15. But definitely cargo and all small stations will be gone immediately. ATL, SLC, CVG will have serious consequences. The Industrial unions just aren't strong enough anymore as their leaderships are really simply not Labor leaders. The Union leaders today are just opportunitist in a secret society and just move up through the ranks. No fight. Nothing.

I could believe that because they had a huge operation in DFW and Delta closed that hub. All unions are a business. We need unions though at some places even if it a crapy union. The problem with a small independent union like AMFA is , we just don't have the numbers we need. So they have to fight forever, and spend alot of money to do it. When they had us, United, Northwest, and Alaska airlines they had over 20,000 members. Now with SWA and Alaska they only have 4000 members. So the companies know we only have x number of dollars to fight with. So it takes forever to get a contract, then the companies just wait for the members to get pissed off, just like we are going through now waiting on a T/A.

 

[MetalMover]

So what do you think WE will see out of this meeting?

Maybe, just maybe, the company will deliver the ENTIRE proposal, language and all. This way GP can finally update his videos and provide more specifics.