American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

I could believe that because they had a huge operation in DFW and Delta closed that hub. All unions are a business. We need unions though at some places even if it a crapy union. The problem with a small independent union like AMFA is , we just don't have the numbers we need. So they have to fight forever, and spend alot of money to do it. When they had us, United, Northwest, and Alaska airlines they had over 20,000 members. Now with SWA and Alaska they only have 4000 members. So the companies know we only have x number of dollars to fight with. So it takes forever to get a contract, then the companies just wait for the members to get pissed off, just like we are going through now waiting on a T/A.

most unions are smaller than amfa but do fine. The twu/iam at American is incredibly worse than amfa and is worth $100s of millions. Im not a giant fan of amfa or other craft unions like alpa, but any craft union that stays non aflcio will always stay stronger and more vigilant than the weak aflcio corporate unions.
Im a big fan of exclusive unions that keep all interest on one property. Like swapa, APA, APFA (american stews). The best ramp union was ROPA over on your property.
I have no idea why the American mechanics dont get their own.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So what do you think WE will see out of this meeting?

i think the company will signal a more aggressive game plan.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

today, the democratic party will fight for an illegal immigrant transsexual to stay in this country and marry his pet parakeet, but didn't lift a finger to fight right-to-work or even repeal certain parts of taft-hartley (right-to-work).

Really? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-introduce-bill-to-repeal-right-to-work-nationwide

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Really? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-introduce-bill-to-repeal-right-to-work-nationwide

Now-- GOP fights FOR RTW -- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-saccone-right-to-work-unions_us_5aa406a6e4b086698a9e28dc

 

[Kev3188]

The case was not unanimous. I believe AMFA put on an incredibly poor presentation and also didn't spend the money to build up the political weight on this case. An outside "Top" law firm must be brought in to win these. Companies go to outside firms, so should unions but the unions don't want to spend the money.

Plus, there are potentially different items which would make your case unique. The IAM raised this at Sprit but then settled when it agreed with the company to contract out all jobs except FLL. The TWU didn't have the time or money to fight for Frontier. And the Teamsters sold out the Republic Pax service and ramp for the stews contract. In all 3 cases, the union cut deals or didn't fight, and workers got greatly hosed.

Immediately Delta would contract out all cargo and contract out pretty much everything other than ATL and maybe another station where it can't quite contract everyone out so easily (Low unemployment) but it most certainly will change your wages immediately (See AMFA case as well where this happened prior to getting whacked), and overtime rules. I think in AMFA's case, as soon as the group voted in AMFA, after 1 negotiating session AMFA said there was an impasse. And the company cut wages, 401k, and overtime rules immediately thereafter.

I mean it will be a complete bloodbath for years if you guys actually voted in the IAM, but the IAM has shown that it is all talk and will sell workers out in a heartbeat, possibly snagging ATL only at Delta, or JFK only at JetBlue. But in each case, it's all about the dues and any TA under Sito won't have any teeth.

Like I said, I don't see any evidence to suggest that most Delta or JetBlue agents would be out of a job immediately, if they voted in the IAM. Those that remain will have a serous cut in wages/benefits as I think Delta will mobilize quickly as it is about as anti union as all hell.

But if the ramp organizing team still wanted to press forward, I would organize it after getting their consent by fully disclosing the forecast but also with the potential to win a court case a few years later to get us back to the table. But the union leadership would have to fight this and sink in tons of money. I will. Sito has already proven he won't.

Ok, thank you.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don’t think much will happen this week to close any deals but there will be talks and maybe even some “minor” proposals exchanged? But I think both sides will have things to read over and there will be some more meetings scheduled?

IMO.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Really? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-introduce-bill-to-repeal-right-to-work-nationwide

really...wait until 2017 to introduce such legislation that will go absolutely nowhere.

why didn't the dems & obama introduce it in 2009/2010, where it could have moved very quickly in congress? burned all his political capital on his health plan.

 

[NYer]

really...wait until 2017 to introduce such legislation that will go absolutely nowhere.

why didn't the dems & obama introduce it in 2009/2010, where it could have moved very quickly in congress? burned all his political capital on his health plan.

This has been an ongoing mission for many years. There has been similar legislation introduced as part of the FAA Reauthorization Bill over the years, but it usually didn't make it into the final law.

The TWU, and by extension, the One World of Labour Council brought attention to the outsourcing of maintenance by all of the Oneworld alliance partners since 2011. The hope was to show how all this affects everyone around the world and it wasn't just a US problem. There was even an attempt to make this into a National Security issue since foreign workers would have access to planes from the US.

(follow the links for more info)

 

[Steve Walegir]

I don’t think much will happen this week to close any deals but there will be talks and maybe even some “minor” proposals exchanged? But I think both sides will have things to read over and there will be some more meetings scheduled?

IMO.

Interesting and probable but summer is upon us and Ibiza is calling. We are 4-5 months away from open enrollment and imo if the demand to eliminate the current IAM medical is still a must have for the company then it's off to sunny Spain and see you in the fall. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath

 

[WeAAsles]

Interesting and probable but summer is upon us and the Ibiza is calling. We are 4-5 months away from open enrollment and imo if the demand to eliminate the current IAM medical is still a must have for the company then it's off to sunny Spain and see you in the fall. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath

Hey Steve don’t forget in that first video those Company reps made a mention of the Medical in 2020. So I think they had already anticipated it continuing for at least another year.

EDIT: BTW don’t you start with that stupid “must have” crap now. We “must have” Air, Food and Water to live but there aren’t too many other must haves in life that I can think of.

 

[MetalMover]

Interesting and probable but summer is upon us and Ibiza is calling. We are 4-5 months away from open enrollment and imo if the demand to eliminate the current IAM medical is still a must have for the company then it's off to sunny Spain and see you in the fall. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath

Here we go again, I understand the anxiety over the IAM medical plan, but is the ONLY issue here?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don’t think much will happen this week to close any deals but there will be talks and maybe even some “minor” proposals exchanged? But I think both sides will have things to read over and there will be some more meetings scheduled?

IMO.

In your opinion? Well, you didn't really express one other than ask a question. Are you asking if there is going to be more meetings scheduled? Well, of course there will be more meetings scheduled. There aren't any scheduled now but for us to get a TA there would certainly have to be more meetings scheduled.

This meeting today isn't as soft as you think. Sito didn't just tell the committee to stay home because of 'nothing doing'. I'm thinking the company is making some things pretty clear to Sito this week and I'm thinking Sito might want to keep that info to himself.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Here we go again, I understand the anxiety over the IAM medical plan, but is the ONLY issue here?

Metal,
No the medical is not the only topic, and my apologies if I came off that way but imo it is item #1 on the IAM side and they have a 50% say on if a contract comes back to the membership for a vote. So while Mntc outsourcing and pt % are larger issues on the TWU side, I think the hold up will be the medical.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Hey Steve don’t forget in that first video those Company reps made a mention of the Medical in 2020. So I think they had already anticipated it continuing for at least another year.

EDIT: BTW don’t you start with that stupid “must have” crap now. We “must have” Air, Food and Water to live but there aren’t too many other must haves in life that I can think of.

Lol, Must Have
I must have been mistaken when I read comments you've made here and on Fakebook about how the IAM medical has survived 2 bk's and contract negioations. It seems to me even from the IAM members I talk to here in ATL that they Must Have that medical to stay as is and as Parker said in the last SOTA , yeah it's a better plan but 120,000 other AA employees don't have it so that's why we want it. It isn't a must have for me personally but if my union says it is then it is.

 

[WeAAsles]

Lol, Must Have
I must have been mistaken when I read comments you've made here and on Fakebook about how the IAM medical has survived 2 bk's and contract negioations. It seems to me even from the IAM members I talk to here in ATL that they Must Have that medical to stay as is and as Parker said in the last SOTA , yeah it's a better plan but 120,000 other AA employees don't have it so that's why “””””””we want it.””””””” It isn't a must have for me personally but if my union says it is then it is.

I don’t think I’ve read the Unions use the term “must have” either?

We want it is a better way of putting it for both sides. The Company wants it, the IAM wants to keep it and the TWU wants to get it.

And actually Metal is right and I think given a choice the Company would much rather have the outsourcing over the extra Medical cost any day of the week?