American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[737823]

and the iam pension is holding up talks here. Company even offered all of us an additional 40%, up from 5.5% but sito said no cuz it goes in our 401k which we would control.

If indeed the case likely not the first or only instance. From 2006 at NW with DL 143 according to Kev:

UT--

Of all the items the company was asking for in each of the proposed concessionary agreements, the *one* thing everyone-junior, senior, 'tween- I spoke with were amenable to was the 401k match. NW would have frozen the pension anyway, so the choice was either the match, or the IAMNP plan. NO ONE wanted the IAM plan, yet it was the one thing the IAM fought hardest for. Not scope, not wages, their plan...

And just how much will retiring folks get from the IAM plan? No one can tell you! The officers in DL143 have no idea how much the multiplier will be..... :angry:

Josh

 

[ATD]

We have a complacent membership. The card drive has stalled. The guys who are leaders have given up due to the pathetic members we have. Most in their 50's they just want another 5 to 6 years and they are out.
Thia ASSociation is being led by an IAM guy and a TWU guy that could give two craps about the members.If they stay in office at least 5 years they become vested in the union retirement pension which is not frozen. Our dues money keep it going for them and the previous so called leaders that put us in this ASSociation.
THE MECHANICS ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY A GROUP OF WORKERS THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD THE ABILITY TO STAY ON THE JOB SO LONG. BAG SMASHERS(FLEET SERVICE) WAS NEVER SUPPOSE TO BE A LONG TERM JOB.IT WAS A PART TIME FILL IN FOR STUDENTS.
These are the views of a majority of the grease monkeys (AMT's).

 

[WeAAsles]

We have a complacent membership. The card drive has stalled. The guys who are leaders have given up due to the pathetic members we have. Most in their 50's they just want another 5 to 6 years and they are out.

Well at least one of you guys is finally being honest about it. And your Members aren’t pathetic. Just not all of them (Most of them) don’t want the same thing you want. Something many of you guys can never come to terms with.

Thia ASSociation is being led by an IAM guy and a TWU guy that could give two craps about the members.If they stay in office at least 5 years they become vested in the union retirement pension which is not frozen. Our dues money keep it going for them and the previous so called leaders that put us in this ASSociation.

So you know them personally and they’ve said to you that they can give two craps about the members? I’m sorry but comments like these just sound like jealousy to me.

THE MECHANICS ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY A GROUP OF WORKERS THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD THE ABILITY TO STAY ON THE JOB SO LONG. BAG SMASHERS(FLEET SERVICE) WAS NEVER SUPPOSE TO BE A LONG TERM JOB.IT WAS A PART TIME FILL IN FOR STUDENTS.
These are the views of a majority of the grease monkeys (AMT's).

First of all, ALL CAPS? Are you kidding?

Now otherwise what a load of crap. Gary, Dale and Rollie have put out information about the Company Scope ask and you say that BAG SMASHERS are holding you hostage. F you man. I don’t feel your “Trade School” work is holding me hostage. TRADE SCHOOL!!!!!

And BTW there was a time there was no PT in Fleet Service and my friend’s father retired with a great Pension from his career back in 1978. So who the hell are any of you to put down any job?

Now go talk to the MILLIONS of Americans who work in low skilled menial labor with pride every day and tell them how worthless you think their jobs are you blowhard.

 

[MetalMover]

We have a complacent membership. The card drive has stalled. The guys who are leaders have given up due to the pathetic members we have. Most in their 50's they just want another 5 to 6 years and they are out.
Thia ASSociation is being led by an IAM guy and a TWU guy that could give two craps about the members.If they stay in office at least 5 years they become vested in the union retirement pension which is not frozen. Our dues money keep it going for them and the previous so called leaders that put us in this ASSociation.
THE MECHANICS ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY A GROUP OF WORKERS THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD THE ABILITY TO STAY ON THE JOB SO LONG. BAG SMASHERS(FLEET SERVICE) WAS NEVER SUPPOSE TO BE A LONG TERM JOB.IT WAS A PART TIME FILL IN FOR STUDENTS.
These are the views of a majority of the grease monkeys (AMT's).

Interesting! If the card drive stalled, is it a coincidence negotiations have stalled?
Whether or not a card drive has stalled, whether or not negotiations have stalled, my prediction is changes-r-a-coming!
Complacency will be regretted.

 

[Tim Nelson]

At least CB is saying he will travel to update membership. Oh, wait, never mind that's only for the fleet boys...

CB been traveling. His update to dfw in person (he represents clp there) was that Sito doesnt really care aout the iamnpf but that we want to leverage our health care for s cope and a better % going into 401k.
His second point was that they would bring it out for a vote prior to filing section 6. Now consider for a moment that what CB said is true.
Who could argue against that?

The problem is that Sito is making the iam pension a deal breaker. United Airlines would be on the hook. American knows this. Also, American has absolutely no intention on filing section 6 but has given its final offer.

With Trump now considering penalties on Chinese carriers, Id guess China would put tariffs on our air travel. Toss in the fact that our airline is now struggling and missing projections. And an economy that is expected to cool off soon.

CBs exit plan to "attack the company" failed. Nobody listened as our fantasy football drafts were more important than bothering with 2 guys (cb and peterson) who arent strong leaders, although CB is a nice guy type. Peterson is just a goof living in dreamland.

Whats the exit plan? ive seen this before and they always come back with less than what was originally offered and we lose millions.

 

[WeAAsles]

Interesting! If the card drive stalled, is it a coincidence negotiations have stalled?
Whether or not a card drive has stalled, whether or not negotiations have stalled, my prediction is changes-r-a-coming!
Complacency will be regretted.

Why is it that any time there is a week that they don’t get together or there isn’t an update people start running around saying there’s a stall?

But now that they’re on Scope there very well could be a stall?

Eventually on every item one side is going to have to give.

 

[Tim Nelson]

AANOTOk
My apologies as my one post last night was a little off on the 401k offer from the company. It is not a 5.5 % automatic contribution with 4 % Match in the company’s offer. It is a 5% auto with 4% match to equal 9% total. I was thinking about our current contribution into the pension today is at 5.5% to equal the twu,s 401k. Sorry for the confusion.

Consider for a moment that what ive been telling you is true, ie., the last offer of scope for 40 stations, as today, is true, the 401k gets bumped up to 10%, and we go to laa health.
Also consider for a moment, that what I have told you is true, ie., this will be the best that the company will offer.

What is your exit plan?

I guess you can keep putting out working class hero videos but after saying the same thing over and over for the next 2 years, you wiould start costing all of us thousands of dollars, right?
Never mind that the company can play mean and start dismantly the iam costing you jobs in clt by taking the 175 work away.

The problem you have is the iam pension. Us and parker already know you dont care about health care since you already voted to recommend that United strip iam members of health care.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Yeah..... A lot of people got pissed off in this deal, because there were two distinct systems in play: Legacy UA leads were topped out when they upgraded, but fell back into the lead seniority list. Legacy CO people had different lead dates, because some were allowed to downgrade back, and upgrade if a slot opened up. But only got the 1.75 upgrade pay. I have been a lead for about 17 years, and even if systems changed, my lead date would fall about the same percentile. So I think that was one of the compromises, because the company claimed they could not find the exact lead dates for the sCO people. We also had/have an acting lead pool, were experienced people would run a gate and get the override if needed. Plus, they also can day trade with a lead because they are in the acting pool. (one good thing is that there are more people that can pick up lead day trades) Now that the system went to the IAM way, if you upgrade, you don't get topped out, but fall in the lead seniority list. So no one want's the job, and in my hub, a few people got junior-manned into the job, because we were/are short of leads. This is a hub thing, though.....Just wanted to clear that up. It was one of the parts of the Javits decision.

i knew and worked next to al in t5 for years and before that, a few old-timers in t4, when it existed. we all know why al had stay on and work past the age of 70. it's been a rough ride for ua; since 9-11 - a rougher ride than for aa people.

as far as javits, never saw someone who is more in demand, gets paid and never really needed to get called at all. imo, various lus/iam people will keep seniority accrued elsewhere , while no one from aa will get seniority accrued 'elsewhere', while they still wore 'aa' on their shirts at that time.

so, why call the guy? the twu loves him because any questions or anger, don't blame me, blame javits? the twu did not represent dues-paying members prior to forming the assoc. with the iam.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The problem is that Sito is making the iam pension a deal breaker.

i thought the lus/iam insurance was the deal-breaker?

wall street knows. i went across yesterday and while waiting in a starbucks line - some 150 people were in line boarding an intl. departue and they were grumbling and complaining about 2 planes out of service/waited for a 3rd to board.

wall street knows. aa is the world's largest airline, it's not america west. these guys are currently in, over their heads. everyday customer service/dependability along with employee relations get worse.

i believe most of us will be long gone when it does finally catch up to the new aa.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

View attachment 13294

ask mr. glass how many incans had to get 'sacrificed', so he could enjoy a vacation 600 years later?

 

[Tim Nelson]

i thought the lus/iam insurance was the deal-breaker?

wall street knows. i went across yesterday and while waiting in a starbucks line - some 150 people were in line boarding an intl. departue and they were grumbling and complaining about 2 planes out of service/waited for a 3rd to board.

wall street knows. aa is the world's largest airline, it's not america west. these guys are currently in, over their heads. everyday customer service/dependability along with employee relations get worse.

i believe most of us will be long gone when it does finally catch up to the new aa.

Thats incorrect. CB will give up the health care no problem. They already agreed until Sito flipped. Remember, CB voted as a union board member, to recommend our United brothers and sisters to accept Uniteds offer of 400% health care increases and unlimited PT and no scope after 2024.
Sito said it was "Landmark".
Glass has been sticking their United iam deal up Sitos butt. CB would be hearing about United as well but he isnt behind closed door #1.

None of you guys listen. I keep telling you but you guys dont listen. United Airlines even mentioned this in an sec filing.

I also keep telling everyone about the great pain coming for the iam pension. The trustees know so they broadened the suspensions prior.

People still dont listen. Everything I said is accurate. These union pollyannas are now creating ridiculous stories about an Isom secret power move that is so secret that even Isom doesnt know about it.

In the meantime, the union has no exit plan. And if there was anything significant in a slow down they would just file an injunction and fire back by dismissing 1250 iam employees from fleet and closing 4 twu fleet stations.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

- well, without going back and checking, i'm fairly certain you told us that the lus/iam insurance was the deal-breaker. CB and his people weren't budging on the lus insurance issue, later it was sito not giving in??

- i don't believe CB or anyone else, including yourself - if you were there; would give up lus/iam insurance without getting some goodies in return. this was talked about here.

- whether i or anyone else laa listened, doesn't matter. my laa union, the twu, decided to form an assoc. with your union. is that code for: lus/iam people should have voted for you? i couldn't vote for you or against you, i'm in the twu.

aa will fall to 6th place if they start closing stations and slashing jobs. this stuff won't happen. they may not be the most competent, but they are not that incompetent.

 

[swamt]

CB been traveling. His update to dfw in person (he represents clp there) was that Sito doesnt really care aout the iamnpf but that we want to leverage our health care for s cope and a better % going into 401k.
His second point was that they would bring it out for a vote prior to filing section 6. Now consider for a moment that what CB said is true.
Who could argue against that?

The problem is that Sito is making the iam pension a deal breaker. United Airlines would be on the hook. American knows this. Also, American has absolutely no intention on filing section 6 but has given its final offer.

With Trump now considering penalties on Chinese carriers, Id guess China would put tariffs on our air travel. Toss in the fact that our airline is now struggling and missing projections. And an economy that is expected to cool off soon.

CBs exit plan to "attack the company" failed. Nobody listened as our fantasy football drafts were more important than bothering with 2 guys (cb and peterson) who arent strong leaders, although CB is a nice guy type. Peterson is just a goof living in dreamland.

Whats the exit plan? ive seen this before and they always come back with less than what was originally offered and we lose millions.

Tim, I still praise the guys for getting out there and answering questions and better updating the members than the lousy job the asso. has done on their website updates. No one can help rather it's good or bad news, it is what it is, and/or whatever the co. is offering. Not sure exactly where this long pause in nego's is going but it would be a good time to get the membership fully caught up on all the details while they can, but they won't, even CB and P.Res are not telling all the details. They seem to be held back from disclosing by the higher ups, just don't know who.

 

[swamt]

CB been traveling. His update to dfw in person (he represents clp there) was that Sito doesnt really care aout the iamnpf but that we want to leverage our health care for s cope and a better % going into 401k.
His second point was that they would bring it out for a vote prior to filing section 6. Now consider for a moment that what CB said is true.
Who could argue against that?

The problem is that Sito is making the iam pension a deal breaker. United Airlines would be on the hook. American knows this. Also, American has absolutely no intention on filing section 6 but has given its final offer.

With Trump now considering penalties on Chinese carriers, Id guess China would put tariffs on our air travel. Toss in the fact that our airline is now struggling and missing projections. And an economy that is expected to cool off soon.

CBs exit plan to "attack the company" failed. Nobody listened as our fantasy football drafts were more important than bothering with 2 guys (cb and peterson) who arent strong leaders, although CB is a nice guy type. Peterson is just a goof living in dreamland.

Whats the exit plan? ive seen this before and they always come back with less than what was originally offered and we lose millions.

Forgot to add this question Tim. You said AA's final offer, did they really give a final offer and call it as such? If it was a final offer, will the asso counter?? If not, why not??? Thx in advance...