American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

Right Al. And you don’t give a rats ass about that work anyway.



Right Al. And you don’t give a rats ass about that work anyway.

Are you enjoying this daily wash, rinse, repeat infinite conversation we’re having here?

The only thing that saves us from the extreme boredom of this stuff is when this guy above chimes in. His absolute level of cluelessness is astounding. Please make fun of him. I really miss that old Al that was actually very funny.

Don't care?Who do you think picks up those bags In the bag room...so it does affect me.I see no reason why the mechs cant have their own union and why it would bother you that they did.As far as Coney goes I dont want to upset him.He realizes they may get rid of avionics so hes studying for his AP test to be a real AMT its either that or installing seats and rugs for the rest of his career

 

[ALUS78]

Ok, let’s clarify these thousands of jobs lost by this 175 work.
First there would be no job loss in clt. We work very few 175,s compared to what we did originally. Most routes have been replaced by 319,320 aircraft. So no job loss there. Both DC and Lga currently has “ No displacement protection “ in place. Nobody that was on the 2014 seniority list can be dicplaced. There has been around 155 agents hired since 14 in these two stations. So for the sake of argument, let’s round it to 200. So unless Phl is going to lose 1200 + jobs, ( now way ) then we don’t get close to 20% or thousands of jobs because of losing 175 work. Not that losing a few hundred jobs is a good thing, but let’s talk real numbers here.

Maybe i feel different cause i work with them and they are more than a number to me.

 

[charlie Brown]

Maybe i feel different cause i work with them and they are more than a number to me.

Didn’t say they were just a number. I am just clarifying the exaggeration of 20% of jobs or thousand of jobs. Not even close.

 

[WeAAsles]

As far as Coney goes I dont want to upset him.He realizes they may get rid of avionics so hes studying for his AP test to be a real AMT its either that or installing seats and rugs for the rest of his career

You see now THIS is the old Al I know and love. Now if only Bob would come back and say really stupid things again we could have a really fun show.

I miss those old fun times.

 

[WeAAsles]

Didn’t say they were just a number. I am just clarifying the exaggeration of 20% of jobs or thousand of jobs. Not even close.

Yea but CB did you hear how after Wed the Company has the ability to close 28 TWU cities that are below the contractual flight threshold.

DFW, LAX, MIA and even ORD are doomed.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Maybe i feel different cause i work with them and they are more than a number to me.

Notice, he conveniently leaves out PHL which was estimated at 850. Yes, there will be job loss in CLT, if the company chose. Toss in 300 additional from around the system and it's about 1,200. Toss in 3rd shift work parking planes, moving planes, cleaning planes. That approaches 20%. I shouldn't have to point these things out but Mr Baskett has an agenda and tells you only 200.

I can assure you that 200 is a lie and that at least 1,200 is more accurate. Could be alot more if the company just contracts out cleaning and movement of aircraft in some of the stations.

Watch how quick that number climbs if the association files section 6. Me thinks the association won't file. Isn't tomorrow the actual day that the contract comes up? Of course the company and union could agree to expedited negotiations. Either way, the union has no leverage whatsoever after giving up cross utilization. Game Over!

 

[ALUS78]

Didn’t say they were just a number. I am just clarifying the exaggeration of 20% of jobs or thousand of jobs. Not even close.

My apologies CB didn't mean to imply that you think they are just numbers.Just curious are you just responding to Tim's post or are the negotiators aware of the threat of what could happen if the negotiations get ugly? For the record I doubt it would happen the company is doing well despite what some posters say and they rather get rid of the senior guys than the new hires and so we negotiate but the threat is there

 

[ALUS78]

Notice, he conveniently leaves out PHL which was estimated at 850. Yes, there will be job loss in CLT, if the company chose. Toss in 300 additional from around the system and it's about 1,200. Toss in 3rd shift work parking planes, moving planes, cleaning planes. That approaches 20%. I shouldn't have to point these things out but Mr Baskett has an agenda and tells you only 200.

I can assure you that 200 is a lie and that at least 1,200 is more accurate. Could be alot more if the company just contracts out cleaning and movement of aircraft in some of the stations.

Watch how quick that number climbs if the association files section 6. Me thinks the association won't file. Isn't tomorrow the actual day that the contract comes up? Of course the company and union could agree to expedited negotiations. Either way, the union has no leverage whatsoever after giving up cross utilization. Game Over!

With the ability of cutting these jobs it would seem to any rational person that the company holds all the cards and has an upper hand in negotiations

 

[Kev3188]

Dave: “Man, this board has gone south.”

Also Dave:

...Give me a break man. Boo Hoo.
.

...So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[737823]

Yea but CB did you hear how after Wed the Company has the ability to close 28 TWU cities that are below the contractual flight threshold.

DFW, LAX, MIA and even ORD are doomed.

How’s that even possible if there are only seventeen (17) TWU stations [plus PHX]?

NYer hasn’t come with the updated departure numbers will the LLCers have to leave STL and go to 25% or 4/10 stations?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

My apologies CB didn't mean to imply that you think they are just numbers.Just curious are you just responding to Tim's post or are the negotiators aware of the threat of what could happen if the negotiations get ugly? For the record I doubt it would happen the company is doing well despite what some posters say and they rather get rid of the senior guys than the new hires and so we negotiate but the threat is there

Al let me get this straight. What do you think our Negotiators should do if the Company Negotiators threatened them with the scenario of taking away jobs and work because they won’t agree to deals that do away with jobs and work in the future anyway?

Is this 175 work in your Contract, work that you own right now? Not meaning work that you do but work that you own that can’t be taken away any time the Company wants anyway?

 

[Tim Nelson]

With the ability of cutting these jobs it would seem to any rational person that the company holds all the cards and has an upper hand in negotiations

The only reason why half of PHL knows that they all could lose their jobs is because I am honest with them. Charlie Brown doesn't disclose these things and said "Only at most 200 or so". He purposely didn't talk about PHL because of his agenda. FLL is another station that would have pretty much half the station wiped out if the company just focused on 'core work'. It is almost certainly 20% systemwide. Not sure what LUS does out west with working other planes (175s or other airlines), cleaning, towing, etc., but it could very well be at or over 20%.

The union holds NO LEVERAGE AT ALL. It gave up the Holy Grail when it did the one thing that NO OTHER UNION DID, it agreed to handle the one thing that the company wanted, i.e., cross utilization as a single item bartered over wages. There simply exist no other reason for Parker to negotiate since he has the TWU bankrupt contract helping his bottom line, UNLESS, he can get a JCBA similar to United. Based on what has been offered, Parker actually offered 10% over United.

It's not going to get any better. The only choice is to enter section 6 and see what happens in a few years (Not good), or allow the members to vote on an offer that is 10% greater than United (Not good but better than taking less in 3 years and losing money beforehand for most)

 

[WeAAsles]

With the ability of cutting these jobs it would seem to any rational person that the company holds all the cards and has an upper hand in negotiations

Only if the ransom is paid. Personally if I was a Negotiator I would shut the entire thing down and go to Section 6 and ask for NMB Mediation if the Company even threatened the move.

BTW they do not have full cross utilization and the most expensive place that hurts the Company is in Maintenance.

Besides Al unless a move comes completely out of left field our Executive Negotiators are not going to accept a deal for one group leaving the other to fend for itself. (No AMT and Related Scope is not done yet either)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Al let me get this straight. What do you think our Negotiators should do if the Company Negotiators threatened them with the scenario of taking away jobs and work because they won’t agree to deals that do away with jobs and work in the future anyway?

Is this 175 work in your Contract, work that you own right now? Not meaning work that you do but work that you own that can’t be taken away any time the Company wants anyway?

The company is fairly comfortable with the TWU contract it has right now. It's a cost saver for the company. It wants to continue Labor peace. The only one threatening anything is Mr Baskett and Mr Peterson who both wanted us to "Attack" the company, based on Gary's Blue Fairy video.

Well, NOTHING happened because people don't listen to Gary and they like their jobs. There may have been some collateral damage from a couple Peterson people but nothing significant for it to be more than a fart in the wind. But, if there ever was anything significant, then the company would have to make sure Mr Peterson knew it wasn't a pushover and introduce the Association to massive IAM Layoffs.

Although Mr Baskett has an agenda and says "Only about 200 "Tops" could be affected, the number swells to over 2,000 if the company took all of the "When and Where directed" work away.

PHL: Half of PHL. Pretty much one whole concourse. 850 jobs
CLT: Minimal but some will be laid off if this case happened
DCA: Cross Utilization TA protects those hired prior to the Cross U agreement. However, between 250-300 are not protected if the 175 and other work goes.
BOS: Cross Utilization TA protects those hired prior to the Cross U agreement. However, about 150 aren't protected so if the company wanted to whack that work there would be plenty that would fall because of Mr Baskett.
PIT: some work there, not sure how much.
FLL: Probably half of the staff could be let go. We do some contracted outfits, overnight cleaning, towing aircraft, etc.
Even in stations like ORD and MIA. In ORD, out of 75 IAM members, about 15 of them aren't protected. I imagine some in LUS MIA aren't protected. We do some 'when and where' directed as well.
BWI? RDU? and west stations? I think we do towing in RDU and cleaning. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they could just hire scrub in a lot of these stations if they wanted to.

Plus when you look at our newest seniority roster, over 1,000 (doesn't matter which station) aren't protected with the cross utilization at all based on seniority, many more based on station).

Who holds all of the cards? Uncle Jerry does. The union had the Ace of Spades and threw it down for 20 pieces of silver. Game Over!

 

[WeAAsles]

The only reason why half of PHL knows that they all could lose their jobs is because I am honest with them. Charlie Brown doesn't disclose these things and said "Only at most 200 or so". He purposely didn't talk about PHL because of his agenda. FLL is another station that would have pretty much half the station wiped out if the company just focused on 'core work'. It is almost certainly 20% systemwide. Not sure what LUS does out west with working other planes (175s or other airlines), cleaning, towing, etc., but it could very well be at or over 20%.

The union holds NO LEVERAGE AT ALL. It gave up the Holy Grail when it did the one thing that NO OTHER UNION DID, it agreed to handle the one thing that the company wanted, i.e., cross utilization as a single item bartered over wages. There simply exist no other reason for Parker to negotiate since he has the TWU bankrupt contract helping his bottom line, UNLESS, he can get a JCBA similar to United. Based on what has been offered, Parker actually offered 10% over United.

It's not going to get any better. The only choice is to enter section 6 and see what happens in a few years (Not good), or allow the members to vote on an offer that is 10% greater than United (Not good but better than taking less in 3 years and losing money beforehand for most)

In FLEET SERVICE since you don’t like to talk about AMT and Related issues do you currently in your Standalone CBA “””OWN””” this E175 work? Or is this work currently being “””LOANED””” to you by the Airline Management team?

1st show me the language in your CBA that states you own this work today but you will not own this work starting tomorrow?

2nd how many E175 “Airplanes” are there flying in the system and where are they mostly concentrated?

P.S. Your desperation to sign a deal, any deal is extremely palpable. And if it’s a bad deal you will ABSOLUTELY use it to your favor against the IAM. No doubts about that.