American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Weez, when the company offers a less economic package in section 6, how are you going to pay for it? You going to take the reallocation of resource approach and close down 20 small stations now just to keep the hubs from seeing less money and benefits than prior to section 6? Members wanna know.

Dance Nelson, Dance. Members wanna see it.

 

[ALUS78]

Dance Nelson, Dance. Members wanna see it.

You were doing so good......pity

 

[MetalMover]

Well if you want to start doing comparisons and say we should stick within those guidelines I’m going to have to trot back out that old AMT BLS link, lol.

I think IMO we’re too focused on worrying about the poor Company when it comes to this Medical stuff. Did they worry about us back in 2003? (Yea I hate dredging that old Demon up) Corporate wasn’t too concerned about us when they wanted to dump our Pensions on a dramatically underfunded PBGC. (They weren’t concerned about us all the years they weren’t funding it at all)

So seriously why are we focused on the Company now to our disadvantage?

How much have they spent (wasted) so far on those Share Buybacks?

No one is defending the company and its ability to afford the better medical.
All I am saying is I sincerely do not believe they will concede. Three years of negotiations and we are headed for mediation. Don't you think they would've given in by now after three years?

As far as BLS comparisons, suppose we fall in the national average but above industry average...Which one will we want to be compared to?
Will that satisfy the membership?

 

[B737 driver]

The problem is that self help will NEVER be granted. PERIOD. And Bill CLinton's NAFTA all but destroyed the AMT field when the parts stopped being taxed, etc. Once Clinton's NAFTA bill was signed, the AMT craft went from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands and even just thousands. At USAir, we had 9,000 mechanics, much more than fleet service, but then Post NAFTA, the company sent everything south to Mexico. Today, due to globalism, the AMT craft is just a remnant. At USAir I think we have 3,500 but that includes GSE auto shop, etc. Unless trade policies shift, and Trump is doing his best, the AMT craft will feel heavy pressure from globalism. Trump just signed a bill making sure Mexico pays at least $15 hour a think? Hell, we don't even have that here.

But, yea, AMFA isn't going to get anything better. The economy actually is going to cool, just by nature, and when it does, what else are you going to give up? We are 3 years behind you. I'm losing $275 a week because of this union. That adds up.

The thing that makes me mad is AMFA preached maintaining scope. Well the company gave us a choice maintain scope and take less money. Then AMFA goes on their roadshows for a month , brings their hired economist tells people if you don't get 3% a year in 20 years , you will be $200,000 in the hole. Hello we haven't had a raise in 6 years. So this raise to a topped out mechanic with your snap up in the first year was worth $15,000 with no overtime. We were lied to by our President Brett claiming you guys were offered $55 an hour to a topped out mechanic. So our greedy slobs went from wanting to be competitive which is what SWA wanted. To we need to be the highest paid. So now the no people are talking greedy company. I wonder will their eyes ever be opened, or will they continue to drink the AMFA cool aid. But it is what it is. At least you guys didn't sign on with them.

 

[WeAAsles]

No one is defending the company and its ability to afford the better medical.
All I am saying is I sincerely do not believe they will concede. Three years of negotiations and we are headed for mediation. Don't you think they would've given in by now after three years?

Well you have to remember that one particular poster here on Forums is the one who got everyone riled up and focused on that Medical advantage they currently have.

The Medical was an economic issue that I doubt was actually discussed much for quite a while into the Negotiations.

As far as BLS comparisons, suppose we fall in the national average but above industry average...Which one will we want to be compared to?
Will that satisfy the membership?

There are a lot more N American Airlines out there than just AA, UAL and Delta. But we only want to compare ourselves to the Major Leagues rather than those playing in the Minors.

Let you in on something here Metal since we’re going into Mediation anyway.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the economic package the Company offered actually.

“For ME:” 3% above December UAL is fine as long as the out years have a few 2.5% raises in there and no 1 or 1.5%, I don’t care if someone leaps ahead of me eventually.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the Medical costs I’m paying right now. But I would like a cap on those costs for the life of the Contract.

“For ME:” The 401k offer would be just fine. Although I think it should be tiered by age with over 50 getting the highest percentage.

But that’s just the Economics without any fine print or talk about Scope. And I’m not going to push out Negotiators just because there’s something out there that “I’d” be fine with.

 

[B737 driver]

Well you have to remember that one particular poster here on Forums is the one who got everyone riled up and focused on that Medical advantage they currently have.

The Medical was an economic issue that I doubt was actually discussed much for quite a while into the Negotiations.



There are a lot more N American Airlines out there than just AA, UAL and Delta. But we only want to compare ourselves to the Major Leagues rather than those playing in the Minors.

Let you in on something here Metal since we’re going into Mediation anyway.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the economic package the Company offered actually.

“For ME:” 3% above December UAL is fine as long as the out years have a few 2.5% raises in there and no 1 or 1.5%, I don’t care if someone leaps ahead of me eventually.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the Medical costs I’m paying right now. But I would like a cap on those costs for the life of the Contract.

“For ME:” The 401k offer would be just fine. Although I think it should be tiered by age with over 50 getting the highest percentage.

But that’s just the Economics without any fine print or talk about Scope. And I’m not going to push out Negotiators just because there’s something out there that “I’d” be fine with.

Weazz I hear you, all I know is the greedy people just cost me including the backpay and raise $71,000 ,-that's what a guy on the ramp makes, very sad. But you guys are messed up, according to Swamprat.

 

[conehead777]

The thing that makes me mad is AMFA preached maintaining scope. Well the company gave us a choice maintain scope and take less money. Then AMFA goes on their roadshows for a month , brings their hired economist tells people if you don't get 3% a year in 20 years , you will be $200,000 in the hole. Hello we haven't had a raise in 6 years. So this raise to a topped out mechanic with your snap up in the first year was worth $15,000 with no overtime. We were lied to by our President Brett claiming you guys were offered $55 an hour to a topped out mechanic. So our greedy slobs went from wanting to be competitive which is what SWA wanted. To we need to be the highest paid. So now the no people are talking greedy company. I wonder will their eyes ever be opened, or will they continue to drink the AMFA cool aid. But it is what it is. At least you guys didn't sign on with them.

Go into management because you sure sound like it. The majority turned it down.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weazz I hear you, all I know is the greedy people just cost me including the backpay and raise $71,000 ,-that's what a guy on the ramp makes, very sad. But you guys are messed up, according to Swamprat.

Hey driver sorry it didn’t go your direction Bro but you have to ultimately respect the vote of that Membership that this is what they want. That’s what being in a Union is all about.

Of course you need to see that vote tally as well.

 

[Racer X]

Patton was in the front lines. We don't even know who the Executive Committee is. Plus, Patton didn't blow his wad and hand the enemy everything the enemy wanted before going into battle.

There is no battle. NONE. Stop all of the working class hero stuff Weez. There exist NOTHING WE CAN DO to control this outcome other than submit now or take a lot less later.
Self Help: Gave that up. NOT HAPPENING unless the union wants to shut down and lose hundreds of millions in a lawsuit.
Merger Leverage: ZERO. We gave up all 'seamlessness'.
Economic Leverage: Thanks to Uncle Donnie, (Sorry Racer but you lose) the economy is booming, but with oil approaching $75, the economic winds are not as strong as when oil was at $43. Hopefully, Racer and 700 are wrong and the economy doesn't go south.

Competitive leverage: ZERO. All negotiations are based on the competition. Mr Baskett recommended a chiat contract over at United. Uncle Jerry proposed 13% over United. The only leverage we would have had is if Uncle Jerry only offered less than United. He didn't.

Conclusion: We are losing money each and ever day. Thus far since September 12,th, the association has costed a Full timer: $275 per week.

Haha. 13% over UA?? Was that on DOS??? Do you ever stop with the BS??? EVER???? I see you are still trying to figure out who I am. First I was CB... now I’m someone that talks about the economy and the POTUS?????
( whoever you think that is ).

 

[WeAAsles]

Go into management because you sure sound like it. The majority turned it down.

Why can’t you ever be nice to people?

 

[Racer X]

No one is defending the company and its ability to afford the better medical.
All I am saying is I sincerely do not believe they will concede. Three years of negotiations and we are headed for mediation. Don't you think they would've given in by now after three years?

As far as BLS comparisons, suppose we fall in the national average but above industry average...Which one will we want to be compared to?
Will that satisfy the membership?

They havnt been discussing medical for three years.
Thirty six fleet articles were negotiated prior to the medical/scope and other matters in the financial package were being negotiated.

 

[WeAAsles]

Haha. 13% over UA?? Was that on DOS??? Do you ever stop with the BS??? EVER???? I see you are still trying to figure out who I am. First I was CB... now I’m someone that talks about the economy and the POTUS?????
( whoever you think that is ).

I think “Mr” Nelson may have his Mathematic thoughts or what he believes he was told a little off.

We already know the Company is offering 3% so if you take 3% and 2% per year on a 5 year deal, there’s his 13%

 

[B737 driver]

Hey driver sorry it didn’t go your direction Bro but you have to ultimately respect the vote of that Membership that this is what they want. That’s what being in a Union is all about.

Of course you need to see that vote tally as well.

They will not release it, because that's what they the negotiating committee decided. I could see that if it was close. But I see no point when it was supposedly a landslide.

 

[MetalMover]

They havnt been discussing medical for three years.
Thirty six fleet articles were negotiated prior to the medical/scope and other matters in the financial package were being negotiated.

I didn't say they were discussing medical for three years. If it took them 2 1/2 years to get to this point with a majority of articles t/a'd...and with scope and medical being the two big main remaining issues, don't you think they knew what they wanted with respect to these two issues all along?
So should we happily accept three more years of negotiations discussing the two simply because they are last issues?
Both sides knew in the beginning what they wanted when this started. And most likely the t/a's that were reached and agreed to might have been done so with scope and medical in mind?

 

[MetalMover]

Well you have to remember that one particular poster here on Forums is the one who got everyone riled up and focused on that Medical advantage they currently have.

The Medical was an economic issue that I doubt was actually discussed much for quite a while into the Negotiations.



There are a lot more N American Airlines out there than just AA, UAL and Delta. But we only want to compare ourselves to the Major Leagues rather than those playing in the Minors.

Let you in on something here Metal since we’re going into Mediation anyway.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the economic package the Company offered actually.

“For ME:” 3% above December UAL is fine as long as the out years have a few 2.5% raises in there and no 1 or 1.5%, I don’t care if someone leaps ahead of me eventually.

“For ME:” I’m fine with the Medical costs I’m paying right now. But I would like a cap on those costs for the life of the Contract.

“For ME:” The 401k offer would be just fine. Although I think it should be tiered by age with over 50 getting the highest percentage.

But that’s just the Economics without any fine print or talk about Scope. And I’m not going to push out Negotiators just because there’s something out there that “I’d” be fine with.

I agree. From what II have read, I am ok with what I SEE! But the union's position, although noble and pro union member, is overly unrealistic in SOME aspects. Now if their plan is to shed those "unrealistic" demands to make it look like they are conceding on issues, then it is sooooooooooooo obvious and a waste of time.