American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

No negative im quite content with the job and company

really? maybe it's me..either you're complaining about something or proudly boasting about us air.

you'll be even more content, maybe even happy after a new contract and taking a crew chief pin - with laa c/c language.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

How much of a pay raise did you get.How much per hour while you were in bankruptcy??

well, i don't remember exactly...things got hazy in 2003 after i went from $24+/hr to $19+/hr after we kindly gave back to the company to avoid bk.

weaasles will know for sure, but i don't believe we lost any pay in 2011 bk. i believe our medical went up a few % points, but they left our wages alone.

prior to your stand-alone in 2014, you said you were at $20.57/hr? i was at $24.something...what i was earning 11 years earlier.

 

[WeAAsles]

well, i don't remember exactly...things got hazy in 2003 after i went from $24+/hr to $19+/hr after we kindly gave back to the company to avoid bk.

weaasles will know for sure, but i don't believe we lost any pay in 2011 bk. i believe our medical went up a few % points, but they left our wages alone.

prior to your stand-alone in 2014, you said you were at $20.57/hr? i was at $24.something...what i was earning 11 years earlier.

We were supposed to have a .42 cent paycut but when the BK ask changed from 20% to 17% the 3% was given back to us in wage increases and PT was no longer going to pay double for Medical.

Our Medical costs did go up from 18% to over time during the cuts, 21% of AA’s supposed costs where we sit on next year’s enrollment.

Historically I believe in wages USair has been roughly less than a dollar below us. But they took worse hits than us in other areas. Their Retirement contributions for Fleet were destroyed all the way back in 1992. And I believe it was only years later that they were placed into the IAMPF.

You also have to remember that US before the merger was cobbled together somewhat from Piedmont and America West too. Those employees were no where near any of the Majors when it came to Compensation. It’s similar to where TWU Represented Envoy sits today making a TOS of $15.75 where we’re earning Double that.

You can also read here the extreme animosity and hatred towards Hub Members by some posters because during BK cuts, the Majority placed a higher burden on the Minority Small Stations. They were afforded the mark of Second Class and their pay and benefits were cut deeper than the Hubs.

TWU rather than making that tough choice during givebacks to salvage small cities by whatever means possible chose the “Equal pay for Equal work” mantra and just let those cities DIE instead.

I actually have to admit I like the IAM’s more creative way to hold those cities until good times returned bringing them back up again over the TWU’s scorched Earth ideology.

Anyway hope you don’t mind that I rambled on just a wee bit here.

 

[WeAAsles]

really? maybe it's me..either you're complaining about something or proudly boasting about us air.

you'll be even more content, maybe even happy after a new contract and taking a crew chief pin - with laa c/c language.

Al doesn’t seem to like the fact that the LAA TWU side in LGA has more workers than the LUS IAM side has?

I hope I’m wrong about this because I could never really understand why someone would want to work that much harder for the same money?

Maybe today he can explain his thoughts without his usual plethora of droll quips?

 

[Kev3188]

Up until recently, IAM contracts placed more of an emphasis on things like insurance costs and/or scope over base rates.

UA’s reflected that when compared to CO, NW’s absolutely reflected that compared to DL, and it seems like US’ does compared to AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Up until recently, IAM contracts placed more of an emphasis on things like insurance costs and/or scope over base rates.

UA’s reflected that when compared to CO, NW’s absolutely reflected that compared to DL, and it seems like US’ does compared to AA.

The Union hierarchy thrives through a higher headcount and higher wages. Focusing on benefits belies the belief that the Union Leadership are only focused on dues over all else.

As you can read here Kevin the continuing narrative is that the IAM is holding the World hostage because they don’t want to relent on their Medical cost savings.

Seems to me that at least in regards to our Negotiations I’m still seeing a well rounded focus on all aspects of our Compensation, wages, Benefits and Scope.

 

[737823]

Up until recently, IAM contracts placed more of an emphasis on things like insurance costs and/or scope over base rates.

UA’s reflected that when compared to CO, NW’s absolutely reflected that compared to DL, and it seems like US’ does compared to AA.

The sCO IAM agreement certainly didn’t compared to sUA AFA-CWA.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

The Union hierarchy thrives through a higher headcount and higher wages. Focusing on benefits belies the belief that the Union Leadership are only focused on dues over all else.

True, but **** CBA’s like at NK or even UGE only work to reinforce that idea.

As you can read here Kevin the continuing narrative is that the IAM is holding the World hostage because they don’t want to relent on their Medical cost savings.

I know you’re being sarcastic, but I Can’t say I blame ‘em. I’d hold on to that (and the LOA regarding scope) as long as I could, too...

 

[WeAAsles]

True, but **** CBA’s like at NK or even UGE only work to reinforce that idea.

I can agree with your comment here that there is a bad perception regarding the representation of these groups. And we can include Envoy and Swissport in that conversation aa well.

I just don’t think the stories though are that simple to tell?

I guess a question can be asked do they deserve representation and if yes should they be represented by the same Unions who represent us as of course there’s a conflict of interest there?

Do the Unions perhaps consider those groups to be a placeholder to try to bring those jobs back into the mainline branches?

I know you’re being sarcastic, but I Can’t say I blame ‘em. I’d hold on to that (and the LOA regarding scope) as long as I could, too...

Actually IMO the IAM played the Company for a bunch of suckers. Of course over time there would be an erosion of wages but for now they’ve gone up by 50% since their journey in this Merger first started.

BTW the Company did put a caveat in their agreement about Station Staffing Scope (They had no caveat on the Medical) but they also have already agreed to keep the 40 Stations anyway. The Association has asked for 13 more though and to take over the Commuter work.

You see this is where you and I diverge. I would agree to a second tier city agreement to (RESTAFF) old closed cities if that’s what it took to get them back, where (I think) you would accept no other agreement besides that “equal pay for equal work” mantra. That ideology to me keeps them likely closed to us maybe forever?

 

[B737 driver]

I can agree with your comment here that there is a bad perception regarding the representation of these groups. And we can include Envoy and Swissport in that conversation aa well.

I just don’t think the stories though are that simple to tell?

I guess a question can be asked do they deserve representation and if yes should they be represented by the same Unions who represent us as of course there’s a conflict of interest there?

Do the Unions perhaps consider those groups to be a placeholder to try to bring those jobs back into the mainline branches?



Actually IMO the IAM played the Company for a bunch of suckers. Of course over time there would be an erosion of wages but for now they’ve gone up by 50% since their journey in this Merger first started.

BTW the Company did put a caveat in their agreement about Station Staffing Scope (They had no caveat on the Medical) but they also have already agreed to keep the 40 Stations anyway. The Association has asked for 13 more though and to take over the Commuter work.

You see this is where you and I diverge. I would agree to a second tier city agreement to (RESTAFF) old closed cities if that’s what it took to get them back, where (I think) you would accept no other agreement besides that “equal pay for equal work” mantra. That ideology to me keeps them likely closed to us maybe forever?

IAM almost sounds like geniuses, good play on their part, explains the USair guys contentment.

 

[Kev3188]

I can agree with your comment here that there is a bad perception regarding the representation of these groups. And we can include Envoy and Swissport in that conversation aa well.

I just don’t think the stories though are that simple to tell?

I guess a question can be asked do they deserve representation and if yes should they be represented by the same Unions who represent us as of course there’s a conflict of interest there?

Do the Unions perhaps consider those groups to be a placeholder to try to bring those jobs back into the mainline branches?



Actually IMO the IAM played the Company for a bunch of suckers. Of course over time there would be an erosion of wages but for now they’ve gone up by 50% since their journey in this Merger first started.

BTW the Company did put a caveat in their agreement about Station Staffing Scope (They had no caveat on the Medical) but they also have already agreed to keep the 40 Stations anyway. The Association has asked for 13 more though and to take over the Commuter work.

You see this is where you and I diverge. I would agree to a second tier city agreement to (RESTAFF) old closed cities if that’s what it took to get them back, where (I think) you would accept no other agreement besides that “equal pay for equal work” mantra. That ideology to me keeps them likely closed to us maybe forever?

Equal pay for equal work is how it has to be. To go any other way not only tacitly condones a wage disparity, it also puts downward pressure on the people in the “full pay” stations.

 

[WeAAsles]

Equal pay for equal work is how it has to be. To go any other way not only tacitly condones a wage disparity, it also puts downward pressure on the people in the “full pay” stations.

And until the cost of living is uniformly distributed and equal across the entire United States I will continue to disagree with your opinion here.

Someone who works in NYC should and needs to be paid more than someone in Bowing Green KY.

Deep down you’re I’m sure well aware of the facts but Wisconsin isn’t exactly NYC or San Francisco either is it. Lol. (Hey I want to live high on the hog too bro)

 

[Kev3188]

You are conflating the work itself with disparities in the cost of living various cities.

Using your logic, since PHX and DFW both have lower costs than NYC, your coworkers there should be paid less.

Of course that’s silly. The easy answer to your problem is to have Geo pay. If I were at the table, NYC (all points), SFO (all points), ANC, and HNL would all have it.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are conflating the work itself with disparities in the cost of living various cities.

Using your logic, since PHX and DFW both have lower costs than NYC, your coworkers there should be paid less.

Of course that’s silly. The easy answer to your problem is to have Geo pay. If I were at the table, NYC (all points), SFO (all points), ANC, and HNL would all have it.

Same thing. Kev the label means nothing. Call it whatever you want. GEO pay, COLA, HOA, DOA, TURD pay. It still means someone is being paid more somewhere for a particular reason. The reason being a reasonable justifiable one.

Your mind is just more wrapped around the idea that someone you feel wants to take something away from you as your wall of defense. My part in this conversation should leave no impression of that being at least my train of thought.

I’m not in any concessionary mindset.

 

[Kev3188]

No. A base rate is just that; a base. It is the floor, not the ceiling. This is Labor 101 type stuff, Dave.

You are advocating lowering the floor depending on size of flight operations. If you commit to that, then you must also commit to being okay with things like DL’s Ready Reserve program, and even DGS, and Envoy.

That’s quite a corner you’ve backed yourself into. You sure that’s really where you want to be?