American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I'm in IAH. Andrew isnt. I believe he was working on the last Southwest contract. We have Dan Rivera from 570, Gilbert Huertas 571, and Roy Nichols from 575. The flow through agreement is very important. Did they snatch it in bankruptcy? A couple of guys who moved to mainline claim they kept their hire date along with the pay scale for years of service. It sounds like fantasy though.

That I know of you never had a contractual flow through agreement? It was more of a professional courtesy that the Company extended to your group.

The cheap bastards ended the courtesy about 2 years ago because they didn’t want you guys to gain Company time for Vacation accumulation.

What’s incredibly insulting is how the Company initiated a flow through agreement for Pilots to move over to flying the Mainline and earning a good living but they offer you no promises and say you have to quit and hope to be rehired.

I know in the past that they did keep their Company time (Not occupational) but I’m not sure on their wages? Could be though as it’s not a grievable violation any mainline member could make as long as the Company adheres to their contractual right.

IMO a strong flow through agreement is even more important than any raises to your pay or benefits since you don’t have any guaranteed Scope Staffing language if the Company choses to or are contractually obligated to transfer the work back to us.

Take IAH as an example. If the Company is obligated to restaff and recall the Mainline Workers you should at least have first rights at any vacancies that are created throughout the system if you chose or have rights to recall to the mainline itself when openings come up in IAH.

And of course you should be able to transfer anywhere and to any Mainline Station you want without having to have the perfect personell file if there are openings and keep all your Company time.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

That I know of you never had a contractual flow through agreement? It was more of a professional courtesy that the Company extended to your group.

The cheap bastards ended the courtesy about 2 years ago because they didn’t want you guys to gain Company time for Vacation accumulation.

What’s incredibly insulting is how the Company initiated a flow through agreement for Pilots to move over to flying the Mainline and earning a good living but they offer you no promises and say you have to quit and hope to be rehired.

I know in the past that they did keep their Company time (Not occupational) but I’m not sure on their wages? Could be though as it’s not a grievable violation any mainline member could make as long as the Company adheres to their contractual right.

IMO a strong flow through agreement is even more important than any raises to your pay or benefits since you don’t have any guaranteed Scope Staffing language if the Company choses to or are contractually obligated to transfer the work back to us.

Take IAH as an example. If the Company is obligated to restaff and recall the Mainline Workers you should at least have first rights at any vacancies that are created throughout the system if you chose or have rights to recall to the mainline itself when openings come up in IAH.

And of course you should be able to transfer anywhere and to any Mainline Station you want without having to have the perfect personell file if there are openings and keep all your Company time.

You are absolutely right. It was a courtesy now that I think about it. Thanks for that insight. I've been pushing them to include flow through as well. It is an insult not to extend that privilege to us as well.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Envoy passenger service employees
Nearly 5,000 Envoy Air agents joined together and voted overwhelmingly for CWA representation in an election conducted by the National Mediation Board.

Envoy Air workers say, "CWA, Yes!"

The agents work at 102 stations nationwide and have a broad range of responsibilities for passenger service and fleet service work. Envoy is owned by American Airlines Group.
https://cwa-union.org/news/entry/stronger_together_envoy_agents_vote_for_cwa_representation_news



https://envoyagents.org/bargaining-updates/cwa-bargaining-update-envoy-air-september-7-2016/


furlough announcement at LAX of 35 bus drivers. American bought new buses and put the work up for bid. Envoy was not the low bidder so the work was lost.

https://envoyagents.org/bargaining-updates/envoy-air-bargaining-update-may-16-2017/



Our proposal contains a wage scale based on seniority consistent with our involvement with the Fight for Fifteen. The Company was concerned with our proposal, which would cost conservatively $40 million.

The concern they have is based on their ability to compete and keep the work they now have. Based on the regional airlines they compete with–Piedmont, United Ground Services, Delta Ground Services, G2, and others–their research shows that Envoy has the highest wages.

Sorry. CWA represents cross utilized staions only as dictated by the NMB about 2 years or more ago. They ruled stations previously TWU from when mainline was present, got to keep those stations. Not many. About 6.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry. CWA represents cross utilized staions only as dictated by the NMB about 2 years or more ago. They ruled stations previously TWU from when mainline was present, got to keep those stations. Not many. About 6.

Colonel how many Ramp members are their currently TWU represented in those LAA Hub locations? At one point I know the number was about 5000?

So now in those LAA Hubs I assume CWA Represents upstairs and TWU Represents downstairs and CWA has captured roughly another 100 cities.

Do we know how many more cities may have people wearing Envoy shirts and are not represented or are all covered now?

 

[WeAAsles]

Also remember that Envoy is an airline wholly owned by AA not just a service company like a DGS or Swissport. I'm seeing a couple of guys calling it a contract company which is false on it face. It's merely a subdivision that's used to prevent paying livable premium wages not seen by the company as relevant enough to compensate for hard work and solid performance.

Actually if anyone really wanted to be fair and honest about it groups like Envoy, DGS, UGS, Swissport, Ready Reserve and others are all part of a Caste system.

We at the Mainline who are at TOS stand on all those shoulders to be able to make/earn the wages and benefits that we currently enjoy.

I honestly think the tightening of the Labor Market though is going to cause further erosion of that business model being able to continue?

As you stated in another writing why would anyone tolerate this occasionally back breaking work if they can make the same pay and benefits at Mc Donald’s? The fight for $15 is working spectacularly and Airport minimums in some cities are going beyond even that wage want.

I think more stations and work are going to come over to the mainline units over time but the Company will keep the 12 year pay scale and offer occasional buy outs to keep their Labor costs as low as they possibly can?

 

[Tim Nelson]

ENVOY is company internal outsourcing. They fly with the AA logo, AA uniforms, AA call signs and out of the same AA termimals. Every AA legacy flight flipped to ENVOY is a lose of jobs. Union jobs.
Seems the association isn't too concerned about those lose of jobs. You can't stop the building of new hangars and maintenance facilities in central and South America but you can try to stop the ENVOY onslaught on your own territory.

its hard to do that because the twu and iam use union/management co-ops to scab our work, etc. Then the union tells naive pollyannas like Weeazles that these venders are ok cuz they wear a union pin.

Look, Im pro worker. I dont give a chiat if a vendor like envoy or United express, is union. They are collared and oppressed workers like dgs. Only difference is that the IAM and TWU collar them with dues.

As it turns out, all of them would be much better being non union.

Weez and his handlers are all about the dues flow $$$ as their agenda. They could care less.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Thank you Crema. I haven't seen those numbers in terms of being last in MBR. I can tell you for fact that there is a huge difference from 4 years ago. That list is not telling the whole story. For instance we are considered a hybrid station because we operate the most mainline flights for Envoy. Our MBR is consistently under goal which is at a too damn low 2.1 during a holiday month. Smh. We implemented a bar code system to scan bags for each flight. American nor Envoy was creative enough to figure out the MBR issue so we invented it. We have some ORD transfers here and one in particular is lazy. However if you watch the other Envoy out stations at work, you'd be amazed anyone works that hard for less than McDonald's pay.

the latest doa stats from august of 2018, say that envoy air is still last in MBR. 6.21 bags per 1,000 passengers. dl's is 1.94 and aa is at 4.34. ua is at 3.15.

it's a customer service issue along with the money hit.

as far as reliability and dependability, envoy is 15th out of 17, with 4.5% of operations cancelled. dl was at 0.2% and aa at 1.8%.

when dl and ua tell us that they recaptured a huge part of 2018 jet fuel price spike by increasing fares and more premium passengers...the above tell me why those carriers earned more money than us. aa grudgingly told analysts that it 'only' recouped 40% of q3's jet fuel price hike.

only so many premium seats on RJs and aa, as much as aa avoids fuel hedging, they have hedged too much on RJ flying.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The flow through agreement is very important. Did they snatch it in bankruptcy? A couple of guys who moved to mainline claim they kept their hire date along with the pay scale for years of service. It sounds like fantasy though.

i wouldn't bet on that. there are many at laa who previously worked fueling/building cleaning/sky chefs/amr/eagle and only company time (vc, laa's profit sharing and pension (i believe)) counted.

if those guys slipped through the cracks, some FSC who got jumped will grieve.

 

[WeAAsles]

i wouldn't bet on that. there are many at laa who previously worked fueling/building cleaning/sky chefs/amr/eagle and only company time (vc, laa's profit sharing and pension (i believe)) counted.

if those guys slipped through the cracks, some FSC who got jumped will grieve.

There would be no winnable grievance. When AA acquired TWA the Company topped all of them out over the objections of those who LAA who were not given the same.

There are Airport minimums where the Company has to match that agreed to municipal rate. And they have also raised the starting pay in locations where they had difficulty getting people to take the job. (DFW late 90’s)

 

[Tim Nelson]

There would be no winnable grievance. When AA acquired TWA the Company topped all of them out over the objections of those who LAA who were not given the same.

There are Airport minimums where the Company has to match that agreed to municipal rate. And they have also raised the starting pay in locations where they had difficulty getting people to take the job. (DFW late 90’s)

not always true. Airport minimums are superceded by "National" union contracts which keeps the minimum far below the "minimum".
I worked with reporters to expose this, and some newspapers wrote about it.

 

[ALUS78]

ENVOY is no longer a feeder to major airline hubs as some of us think.
They fly routes in excess of 3 hours in some markets. I believe they call it point to point. Hub feeders went away with the days of turbo props that were limited to altitudes, airspeed and capacity. They have major routes to and from AA stations in CLT, DCA, PHL, MIA, NYC, PIT.
Republic also has agreements with both Delta and United Airlines.
Check out the route map. You'll be surprised. It's only going to grow bigger.
I hope the APA can put a stop on Envoy and their grouth of taking our AA jobs or at least put a limit on it. If the APA can be successful to some point we should all be grateful and should support them in any way.
https://rjet.com/about-republic-airline/our-bases-routes/

The pilot shortage will put limits on the regionals

 

[ALUS78]

Colonel I’m sorry, again what city are you in?

And the TWU does monitor Station flight activity but that currently wouldn’t have anything to do with the NC per se. Those are grievances to restaff that have to work there way through.

I wish you guys all the best in your Negotiations. I think the imperative for you all is you need to gain a flow through agreement. Having to resign from Envoy and reapply for AA is complete BS.

BTW is Andrew Rangolan on your NC?

Tbe only reason they have flow through is to attract applicants.At a crew news a subsidiary flight attendant ask why they don have flow through answer we have like 400k applicants for the job.Besides Weez I think you would have trouble getting it mainline to agree I would be against them jumping over any of our people if that's the practice

 

[WeAAsles]

Tbe only reason they have flow through is to attract applicants.At a crew news a subsidiary flight attendant ask why they don have flow through answer we have like 400k applicants for the job.Besides Weez I think you would have trouble getting it mainline to agree I would be against them jumping over any of our people if that's the practice

Al AMR used to allow a courtesy flow through before the merger. I’m not talking about Represented Envoy peeps having any bumping rights. I’m talking about them having a guaranteed first crack at any openings at the Mainline. And particularly if we gain or regain any work in any locations they’re currently performing it at.

We’re again not talking about them getting occupational Seniority.

On the wages though Al they currently top out on the TWU Ramp side at $15.75 while our new hire rate is $14.18.

Even if they did get a little bump up IMO so the F what. But it probably wouldn’t happen anyway?

 

[ALUS78]

i wouldn't bet on that. there are many at laa who previously worked fueling/building cleaning/sky chefs/amr/eagle and only company time (vc, laa's profit sharing and pension (i believe)) counted.

if those guys slipped through the cracks, some FSC who got jumped will grieve.

Flow through means you have to take their chit people too,screw that maybe company time for vacation but that's that

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

Flow through means you have to take their chit people too,screw that maybe company time for vacation but that's that

I've seen more chit people working at AA then I ever saw working at AE.

Prema donna AA MF's!