AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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What is the maximum amount of vacation at SWA?
Hello TC.

6 weeks. (increased from 5 weeks)
We can also sell back up to 2 weeks (increased from 1)
We can also roll 1 week into the next year (new option with this new contract)

To be clear; We still get 5 weeks, the 6th week comes when ya roll over the 1 week that was new to this contract as well as the up to 2 weeks to sell back for cash. So with the rolled 1 week we now get a total of 6 weeks vacation per year plus 12 Floating Holidays, 8 hours sick per month (12 per year) and 10 paid holidays per year.
 

swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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That's self preservation of union dues and they spin it by making the membership think jobs were saved. That has been the TWU play book since they introduced the B scale contract of 1985.
The TWU is like your dads old Buick were you need to let it go and upgrade to a newer and better model.
I also remember the many times they were in nego's with American over job cuts, positions, etc. And when it is all said and done they celebrate by saying; "we fought hard for you guys and got the best we could get, they wanted 4,000 jobs cut, but we nego only 3,000 jobs cut, so we saved jobs."
Remember folks, AMFA has not had a negotiated job loss so far at their representational airlines.
The TWU and now Asso. has always agreed to or nego job losses, cuts, wage concessions, a number of times thru their history...
 

1AA

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Aug 20, 2002
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June 4, 2021

Dear TWU-IAM Association member,

The National Mediation Board (NMB) is still in the process of determining if a representation dispute exists among the Mechanic and Related class and craft at American Airlines, based on the AMFA filing representational cards. We have also been asked if the NMB determines a representation dispute does exist, who will be on the ballot. If the NMB does conduct a representation election, the options will be the TWU-IAM Association, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, no-union, and write in.

We understand that many American Airlines Mechanic and Related workers signed AMFA authorization cards because they were extremely frustrated with the pace of joint contract negotiations between the Association and American Airlines management. However, even with the AMFA trying to divide us during such a critical time, our unity and solidarity endured and we were able to negotiate and ratify the best Mechanic and Related contract ever negotiated in the airline industry. And, through that unity and solidarity we are poised to make future gains, which will benefit us, our families and our communities.

Not only were we able to negotiate industry top wages and cash compensation, we also fought for and achieved industry-leading benefit, retirement and work/job protections. That's the hard stuff and the issues that American management pushed back on with all its might. It became so adversarial that a Federal District Court in Texas slapped a bogus injunction on us and threatened us with hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. Through all of it, we stuck together, engaged in concerted actions to make our voices heard and won the best contract ever negotiated in the airline industry. We should be proud.

However, during this time, AMFA began to prey on the frustrations of Association members, during our negotiations, often telling members we could never achieve the contractual gains our membership eventually ratified. At the same time, AMFA achieved almost nothing, other than backpay, after nearly seven years of negotiations at Southwest. In true AMFA fashion, AMFA organizers bought into company propaganda telling members to demand a vote on American management's proposal, seeking to divide and dilute our collective strength. That's not what a real union does.

There are serious risks to AMFA representation based on its representation model and its history. Simply, the AMFA sells work for wages because it does not have the resources to fight for everything. Currently, AMFA contracts at Southwest and Alaska Airlines, allow for the most outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and related work in the airline industry. The AMFA allows for so much maintenance and related outsourcing that at Southwest and Alaska Airlines, there are only 3 and 4 mechanics per aircraft, respectively. By contrast, because we fought American tooth and nail to protect our work, we have about 16 mechanics per aircraft employed. That's a lot of work and jobs protected.

The AMFA's history also tells us that under AMFA representation, jobs will be lost. After their membership raids at Northwest over 9,000 jobs lost, United about 3,300 jobs lost, and at Alaska Airlines AMFA agreed to allow the contracting out of ALL heavy maintenance work for a loss of nearly 500 jobs. All of these examples are due to the AMFA's lack of power to protect work. Click here to read more about the AMFA's historical failures.

Also, let's just look at the last year. With the largest decline in air travel ever in the airline industry due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, TWU and IAM members mobilized and led the way, with other AFL-CIO affiliated unions, to achieve the Payroll Support Program (PSP), which has kept every single airline worker employed during the worst crisis in aviation history. We didn't just write a letter, we mobilized. We met with the US President, US Senators and US Representatives and ensured we achieved job protection for all airline workers. The AMFA didn't lift a finger to make that happen.

The bottom line is, all American Airlines Mechanic and Related workers face great risks to our future if the AMFA is our representative.

Let's continue to strengthen our unity and solidarity and get ready for the fights that will undoubtedly come in the future. Together we have already demonstrated the power and resolve to achieve our worth and value we rightly deserve.

In solidarity,



Gary Peterson Dave Supplee
After reading Gary's ranting letter the opening paragraph says it all. I believe we will now have an election called by the NMB. This week should be the week we all have been waiting for. Stay tuned for similar letters of desperation from the Association soon.
 
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swamt

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After reading Gary's ranting letter the opening paragraph says it all. I believe we will now have an election called by the NMB. This week should be the week we all have been waiting for. Stay tuned for similar letters of desperation from the Association soon.
Funny now they are actually answering some questions truthfully. I remember either last time or the time before when cards were being collected that the union was saying that "if you guys vote you will be non-union and un-represented any longer." Remember that guys? Now they are saying and listing the 4 options that will be available on the ballot. A complete 180 degrees from their lies and misinformation before.
I hope you are correct on hearing something this week. The waiting game is getting old and boring. Need some industrial union propaganda to fend off. Oh yea, the letters will come quickly once the NMB announces the vote going forward.
 
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swamt

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This is an open question for anyone in the know.

Some on here have been saying how "they are still working out final language in the contract", does anyone know the exact details and what articles are still not final and in writing? It might be wise to get this info out long before the vote as they will try to stick all the negatives of the contract nego by the current union on AMFA (after a successful election) if said left open items are finalized and closed in a negative way at all. They have done this at every single other airline when AMFA "inherited" said contracts after an election. Here, with us, they tried to put off on AMFA the 75% outsourcing that SWA does, saying "they" nego the overwhelming outsourcing which is completely false as the previous unions (IAM and teamsters) were the ones that have always nego the large % of outsourcing at SWA from the very get go. They also tried to put off on AMFA the foreign outsourcing to Canada and Mexico when that was once again the previous representational organizations AND when AMFA came in they were able to stop that said foreign outsourcing and kept them in states.

Just sharing what happened after AMFA won the election at other airlines so you all can be ready for the future hits coming. They will make up anything to try and make the AMFA takeover a failure for about 1-2 years after AMFA takes over, then they will get tired of fighting them and slowly dwindle down and go away, happens every time. And it's really too bad the United guys fell for it hook line and sinker and are now and still regretting it big time.
 

Thunderdome

Member
Nov 20, 2020
21
8
This is an open question for anyone in the know.

Some on here have been saying how "they are still working out final language in the contract", does anyone know the exact details and what articles are still not final and in writing? It might be wise to get this info out long before the vote as they will try to stick all the negatives of the contract nego by the current union on AMFA (after a successful election) if said left open items are finalized and closed in a negative way at all. They have done this at every single other airline when AMFA "inherited" said contracts after an election. Here, with us, they tried to put off on AMFA the 75% outsourcing that SWA does, saying "they" nego the overwhelming outsourcing which is completely false as the previous unions (IAM and teamsters) were the ones that have always nego the large % of outsourcing at SWA from the very get go. They also tried to put off on AMFA the foreign outsourcing to Canada and Mexico when that was once again the previous representational organizations AND when AMFA came in they were able to stop that said foreign outsourcing and kept them in states.

Just sharing what happened after AMFA won the election at other airlines so you all can be ready for the future hits coming. They will make up anything to try and make the AMFA takeover a failure for about 1-2 years after AMFA takes over, then they will get tired of fighting them and slowly dwindle down and go away, happens every time. And it's really too bad the United guys fell for it hook line and sinker and are now and still regretting it big time.
I am not sure what exact articles are pending. But it has been a year since the ratification so this is getting very ridiculous. The association is now saying the company is putting it off because they think it will be easier to fight AMFA on the language instead of the Association.
Also when AMFA took over the contract, how did the dues check off go? The association is saying that the way the article is written the company has zero obligation to take out the dues and give them to AMFA. Just curious how it happened at SW.
 

1AA

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I am not sure what exact articles are pending. But it has been a year since the ratification so this is getting very ridiculous. The association is now saying the company is putting it off because they think it will be easier to fight AMFA on the language instead of the Association.
Also when AMFA took over the contract, how did the dues check off go? The association is saying that the way the article is written the company has zero obligation to take out the dues and give them to AMFA. Just curious how it happened at SW.
As far as union dues check off it can be done the same way as our medical LTD union sponsored benefit. You set up a one time direct deposit account.
Lets get the election done first. Then let AMFA legal work out the legal stuff. I'm sure more letters from the Association will be coming bashing AMFA and spreading lies to put fear in the members if they vote AMFA. The sooner we vote AMFA in the better we will be.
 
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swamt

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I am not sure what exact articles are pending. But it has been a year since the ratification so this is getting very ridiculous. The association is now saying the company is putting it off because they think it will be easier to fight AMFA on the language instead of the Association.
Also when AMFA took over the contract, how did the dues check off go? The association is saying that the way the article is written the company has zero obligation to take out the dues and give them to AMFA. Just curious how it happened at SW.
Our company never fought against us or the members wanting a change in representation. In fact they were open to a new representational change from the teamsters as well. The co. simply kept the dues check off processes going and moved them over to the new AMFA union once they were certified by NMB.
Now I will add that AMFA wanted to play hard ball with the co. when they first took over but they were quickly told they better not or you guys would be gone as quickly as we brought you in here (a record 2 week card drive). So they and the company made a pack to work together and quickly addressing the needs of both sides and it was the better way to go. It was all good if not great relations until almost 20 years later with these new folks now in charge trying to play the hard ball with our union(s), dragging out all nego's with all groups on property and of course all that game playing completely backfired on them.

Side note:
TD, have you been able to make your final decision as of yet on rather to vote for or against AMFA representation? I know you were still taking in all the info. You don't have to tell me your actual decision, just curious if you have made up your mind is all. It's no ones bus. on how you will vote.
Get ready for all the rhetoric and propaganda to increase 10 fold once the NMB announces the election to move forward. I have a feeling the asso. has been preparing "big time" during this long awaited time to come up with how they will fight against AMFA prevailing in this election. They really don't have anything on AMFA so they will flood the membership with overwhelming false, misinformation and flat out lies and made up stories in order to try and overwhelm the membership into believing it all. Fasten your seat belts folks, it will get busy in the upcoming propaganda machine coming out of the asso. as long as the co. still remains neutral as they said they will, we shall see though...
 

swamt

Veteran
Oct 23, 2010
12,063
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Some letters appropriately arranged below: :)

June 4, 2021

Dear TWU-IAM Association member,

The National Mediation Board (NMB) is still in the process of determining if a representation dispute exists among the Mechanic and Related class and craft at American Airlines, based on the AMFA filing representational cards. We have also been asked if the NMB determines a representation dispute does exist, who will be on the ballot. If the NMB does conduct a representation election, the options will be the TWU-IAM Association, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, no-union, and write in.

We understand that many American Airlines Mechanic and Related workers signed AMFA authorization cards because they were extremely frustrated with the pace of joint contract negotiations between the Association and American Airlines management. However, even with the AMFA trying to divide us during such a critical time, our unity and solidarity endured and we were able to negotiate and ratify the best Mechanic and Related contract ever negotiated in the airline industry. And, through that unity and solidarity we are poised to make future gains, which will benefit us, our families and our communities.

Not only were we able to negotiate industry top wages and cash compensation, we also fought for and achieved industry-leading benefit, retirement and work/job protections. That's the hard stuff and the issues that American management pushed back on with all its might. It became so adversarial that a Federal District Court in Texas slapped a bogus injunction on us and threatened us with hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. Through all of it, we stuck together, engaged in concerted actions to make our voices heard and won the best contract ever negotiated in the airline industry. We should be proud.

However, during this time, AMFA began to prey on the frustrations of Association members, during our negotiations, often telling members we could never achieve the contractual gains our membership eventually ratified. At the same time, AMFA achieved almost nothing, other than backpay, after nearly seven years of negotiations at Southwest. In true AMFA fashion, AMFA organizers bought into company propaganda telling members to demand a vote on American management's proposal, seeking to divide and dilute our collective strength. That's not what a real union does.

There are serious risks to AMFA representation based on its representation model and its history. Simply, the AMFA sells work for wages because it does not have the resources to fight for everything. Currently, AMFA contracts at Southwest and Alaska Airlines, allow for the most outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and related work in the airline industry. The AMFA allows for so much maintenance and related outsourcing that at Southwest and Alaska Airlines, there are only 3 and 4 mechanics per aircraft, respectively. By contrast, because we fought American tooth and nail to protect our work, we have about 16 mechanics per aircraft employed. That's a lot of work and jobs protected.

The AMFA's history also tells us that under AMFA representation, jobs will be lost. After their membership raids at Northwest over 9,000 jobs lost, United about 3,300 jobs lost, and at Alaska Airlines AMFA agreed to allow the contracting out of ALL heavy maintenance work for a loss of nearly 500 jobs. All of these examples are due to the AMFA's lack of power to protect work. Click here to read more about the AMFA's historical failures.

Also, let's just look at the last year. With the largest decline in air travel ever in the airline industry due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, TWU and IAM members mobilized and led the way, with other AFL-CIO affiliated unions, to achieve the Payroll Support Program (PSP), which has kept every single airline worker employed during the worst crisis in aviation history. We didn't just write a letter, we mobilized. We met with the US President, US Senators and US Representatives and ensured we achieved job protection for all airline workers. The AMFA didn't lift a finger to make that happen.

The bottom line is, all American Airlines Mechanic and Related workers face great risks to our future if the AMFA is our representative.

Let's continue to strengthen our unity and solidarity and get ready for the fights that will undoubtedly come in the future. Together we have already demonstrated the power and resolve to achieve our worth and value we rightly deserve.

In solidarity,



Gary Peterson Dave Supplee

"IF" the NMB determines a representational dispute does exist?


And here a letter to the "dual union" asso. about "IF" there would have been an election.


And soon both organizations will lose a large number of dues paying members...

Please cue the requiem for the dual unionism TWU/IAM/Asso. losing the election results for representing the mechanic and related at AA:

A requiem for the drive/raid.
 

Thunderdome

Member
Nov 20, 2020
21
8
Our company never fought against us or the members wanting a change in representation. In fact they were open to a new representational change from the teamsters as well. The co. simply kept the dues check off processes going and moved them over to the new AMFA union once they were certified by NMB.
Now I will add that AMFA wanted to play hard ball with the co. when they first took over but they were quickly told they better not or you guys would be gone as quickly as we brought you in here (a record 2 week card drive). So they and the company made a pack to work together and quickly addressing the needs of both sides and it was the better way to go. It was all good if not great relations until almost 20 years later with these new folks now in charge trying to play the hard ball with our union(s), dragging out all nego's with all groups on property and of course all that game playing completely backfired on them.

Side note:
TD, have you been able to make your final decision as of yet on rather to vote for or against AMFA representation? I know you were still taking in all the info. You don't have to tell me your actual decision, just curious if you have made up your mind is all. It's no ones bus. on how you will vote.
Get ready for all the rhetoric and propaganda to increase 10 fold once the NMB announces the election to move forward. I have a feeling the asso. has been preparing "big time" during this long awaited time to come up with how they will fight against AMFA prevailing in this election. They really don't have anything on AMFA so they will flood the membership with overwhelming false, misinformation and flat out lies and made up stories in order to try and overwhelm the membership into believing it all. Fasten your seat belts folks, it will get busy in the upcoming propaganda machine coming out of the asso. as long as the co. still remains neutral as they said they will, we shall see though...
SWAMT, I have not made my final decision yet. I will fully admit, and expect to be flamed for this, but there is some "fear" slowing my decision down. Some aspects that I have to look at, is probably loss of IAM pension money (less then 5 years), Probable loss of the medical we have now, having representation from a group that has not represented my group before, the fight that the company will have with regards to the contract, and others. Now I get that there is risk with regards to either decision but sometimes it is hard to not be selfish in these decisions. haha. This forum, and listening to people on the floor does help. (I said listen, not believe). I appreciate your assistance and AMFAin MIAMI as well.

TD
 
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1AA

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Aug 20, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
SWAMT, I have not made my final decision yet. I will fully admit, and expect to be flamed for this, but there is some "fear" slowing my decision down. Some aspects that I have to look at, is probably loss of IAM pension money (less then 5 years), Probable loss of the medical we have now, having representation from a group that has not represented my group before, the fight that the company will have with regards to the contract, and others. Now I get that there is risk with regards to either decision but sometimes it is hard to not be selfish in these decisions. haha. This forum, and listening to people on the floor does help. (I said listen, not believe). I appreciate your assistance and AMFAin MIAMI as well.

TD
The main questions should be in determining if you want to stay with the Association or not is as follows.

1) Are two unions representing the same groups and more outside our class and craft better than one union focused on our class and craft specifically?

2) How truthful has the Association, IAM and TWU been during this merger, transition and negotiation process to its members?

3) Why did the Association and both unions flat out lie to all the members about having a representational election to determine which if any Union will be the official representative of the New American airlines?

Being truthful and honest or a better word is transparent will always determine if this Association has a self serving agenda and how far they will go to keep that agenda in place. At what cost or sacrifice to each individual member must we continue to have faith in the Association? It will be individual choices when the time comes. Remember the past is why we have a pending election at our door step. The future will be decided by individuals such as you and I and not the self serving Association in tow by the AFL-CIO political influences. Good luck to us all when the time comes.
 

dfw gen

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Dec 1, 2011
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SWAMT, I have not made my final decision yet. I will fully admit, and expect to be flamed for this, but there is some "fear" slowing my decision down. Some aspects that I have to look at, is probably loss of IAM pension money (less then 5 years), Probable loss of the medical we have now, having representation from a group that has not represented my group before, the fight that the company will have with regards to the contract, and others. Now I get that there is risk with regards to either decision but sometimes it is hard to not be selfish in these decisions. haha. This forum, and listening to people on the floor does help. (I said listen, not believe). I appreciate your assistance and AMFAin MIAMI as well.

TD
All reasonable concerns. First with 5 years in the Ian pension there is little too no vesting that would be a big concern. I would ask myself how secure would it be in 15,20 or 30 years down the road. I would recommend you research the viability projections of the plan. As far as the medical it sunsets or we all go to the same plan after this contract again not a real lose there either, its inevitable. As far as representation, that is a concern, there are two things we dont like change and the way things are. Personally over 30 years I have seen the best and the worse of the twu. Personally ill take the chance. The big thing is that we all get a chance to vote, feel free to vote your conscience
 

dfw gen

Veteran
Dec 1, 2011
3,774
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All reasonable concerns. First with 5 years in the Ian pension there is little too no vesting that would be a big concern. I would ask myself how secure would it be in 15,20 or 30 years down the road. I would recommend you research the viability projections of the plan. As far as the medical it sunsets or we all go to the same plan after this contract again not a real lose there either, its inevitable. As far as representation, that is a concern, there are two things we dont like change and the way things are. Personally over 30 years I have seen the best and the worse of the twu. Personally ill take the chance. The big thing is that we all get a chance to vote, feel free to vote your conscience
To add to the above, the contract remains the same just the administrator changes. As far as union dues, they just got to a different bank account. in my opinion we could not have accomplished this drive without the iam's predictable reaction. if the iam has actually come in to the association and attempted to be an actual partner in the association and force change for the benefit of all this would be a totally different scenario. they actually had the opportunity to steal the show form the twu and prove that they were worth being in an association. instead they focused on themselves and self preservation at the memberships cost. instead of being open minded and doing the right thing to earn their way into the memberships good standing, the WHOLE membership they choose to go it alone to the majorities detrement.
 
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swamt

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SWAMT, I have not made my final decision yet. I will fully admit, and expect to be flamed for this, but there is some "fear" slowing my decision down. Some aspects that I have to look at, is probably loss of IAM pension money (less then 5 years), Probable loss of the medical we have now, having representation from a group that has not represented my group before, the fight that the company will have with regards to the contract, and others. Now I get that there is risk with regards to either decision but sometimes it is hard to not be selfish in these decisions. haha. This forum, and listening to people on the floor does help. (I said listen, not believe). I appreciate your assistance and AMFAin MIAMI as well.

TD
Couple items to talk about here and hopefully some organizers might chime in and help.
I do know you won't lose any of your pension you already have invested into. Now will the funds temporarily stop from the union side? Maybe. And Maybe not. I am sure, and I think I have read where AMFA will work on getting those funds fired back up or will look at another direction to point those funds back into some kind of retirement benefit for you guys. Some one else closer to the info may have more accurate info on that.
Now on the possible loss in medical benefits; I do remember AMFA saying you guys will not lose any benefits currently being offered just because of a change in representation and I believe they have also heard something about that from the NMB in letters back and forth. I also think the NMB has sent letters to AA on making sure they maintain current benefits and no reductions from current just because there is a representational entity change. Again, maybe one of the organizers have more info and can chime in.
I understand your thoughts on the company fighting against the contract and getting AMFA to uphold the contract. The contract language IS the contract language as it was already negotiated by the asso. and the co. Now this is where "intent" will become the biggest language of the contract fights and arguments going forward should AMFA prevail. Like in our case of representational change, AMFA had to call contract negotiators to the table to testify on intent language at the time it was negotiated as the co. "tried" to get away with challenging the intent just because a new union took over. However, that never changes the language nor the "intent" of said language of the contract. Yes, AMFA may have to take extra steps to prove their point, but that will be expected after taking over (inheriting) the contract already nego. and agreed to by the asso. and the company. All company notes, recordings, slides and any info during contract nego's are open for viewing and MUST be supplied by both sides when going thru these "extra" steps fighting the co over language issues. IF either side refuses to show or says they have no such records anymore are lying thru their teeth and If they did in fact destroy said documents, just because a new representational union took over, or to get back at membership for the change in representation, they will be delt with accordingly by the law as well as the NMB rulings in favor of the side not showing all the resistance. It all happened to us when we fired the teamsters, BUT, they quickly saw where it would have gotten them and they started to testify truthfully in the long run. In other words, eventually it will work itself all out as far as settling the "intent" of contractual language.
I am glad to hear you are getting help from here as well as info on the floors.
You may reach out to the Organizers or even AMFA National to get more accurate info on your questions above and verify or clear up what I think may or may not happen. Most of my info is from 3rd party individuals discussions on these forums and some letters from AMFA National and the NMB, but, by all means pls do verify everything anyone says just to double check. After all this is a big change for you guys in the membership that will be affected by a change in representation.

Throw any questions out here ya want. Glad to help...
 

swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
12,063
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All reasonable concerns. First with 5 years in the Ian pension there is little too no vesting that would be a big concern. I would ask myself how secure would it be in 15,20 or 30 years down the road. I would recommend you research the viability projections of the plan. As far as the medical it sunsets or we all go to the same plan after this contract again not a real lose there either, its inevitable. As far as representation, that is a concern, there are two things we dont like change and the way things are. Personally over 30 years I have seen the best and the worse of the twu. Personally ill take the chance. The big thing is that we all get a chance to vote, feel free to vote your conscience
Wasn't the medical addressed as far as no loss of benefits from current language just b/c they have a change in representation???

Didn't realize you guys were responding as I wrote my first response on getting some else to chime in.