Industrial vs. Craft

whoop whoop

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May 18, 2010
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I am posting this in the AA forum since it is relevant now for AA.

Every thread on every topic seems to end up about this subject, I figured why hijack another thread. Just start a thread about it.

I will list why I favor AMFA, I would like to see counters of why someone would prefer the ibt or TWU. Maybe some good points would be made for the incumbents.

1) AMFA has a democratic process for its leadership positions. Nobody is appointed, every position is elected by the membership.

2) AMFA has a true recall process. If an elected leader does something the membership does not like or agree with, said leader is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

3) AMFA officers are ALL A&P's. They still are employed by their respective carriers. That is a fail safe for bad contracts. If they negotiate a bad contract, they will have to live with it when they come back to the floor.

4) AMFA officers pay are directly linked to the memberships pay. If they negotiate a pay cut for us, they have just done so for themselves.

5) AMFA conducts open negotiations. If you are negotiating for me, I want to see you in action. There needs to be NO secrets.

6) AMFA as an organization has never crossed anybodies picket line.

7) AMFA hires professionals in their skill to advise AMFA on certain parts of negotiating a contract.

8) AMFA does not get involved with pensions or credit card offers for their profit. They just negotiate a pension for you that you want.

9) AMFA has one concern. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related. They are not concerned or distracted by any other trade or craft or profession.

10) AMFA has open and direct communications.

Now I have gave a few examples that are FACT and not arguable. I would like to hear some on the other side. Maybe some of us will have an epiphany and realize the industrial way is the best way forward.
 
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whoop whoop

Senior
May 18, 2010
274
184
Funny,

Just as I expected. Not one response. You guys and girls at AA should see this and shoo the SCAB ibt away like the dirty bugs they are!!!

They had a direct hand in hurting our profession by SCABBING at NWA, they do not care about representing this profession, they are out to pick our pockets, that is all. They have been picking my pocket for over a decade already, legally, and I am getting tired of it.
 
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Flying low

Veteran
Jul 19, 2011
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Funny,

Just as I expected. Not one response. You guys and girls at AA should see this and shoo the SCAB ibt away like the dirty bugs they are!!!

They had a direct hand in hurting our profession by SCABBING at NWA, they do not care about representing this profession, they are out to pick our pockets, that is all. They have been picking my pocket for over a decade already, legally, and I am getting tired of it.
Give it a day. Maybe overspeed is celebrating fathers day with his family.
 
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Overspeed

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Jun 27, 2011
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Give it a day. Maybe overspeed is celebrating fathers day with his family.
I'll answer this with another question. Has that process provided positive benefit to all the members that have bought in to it's system of unionism? Keep in mind that at the beginning of 2000 they had approximately 25,000 members and have approximately less than 90% of that number now with most losing their jobs to outsourcing. Yes, no there may be 25% or more jobs lost due to outsourcing in BK but then that still nowhere near adds up to the 90% lost with AMFA represented members.

The structure you outlined has not delivered on its promises, unless you are in the privileged 10%.

FYI - AMFA does not just represent A&Ps. They represent everyone in the M&R class and craft which includes, aircraft cleaners, janitors, painters, parts washers, facilities mechanics, and automotive mechanics per the NMB.
 
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TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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This video was produced in 2004 prior to the AA mechanic and related group being shafted by the TWU, AA, and the NMB and prevented us from getting a representational election.

Lee Seham does a great job of explaining the craft union vs industrial union ideas.

Yes between the scabs at Northwest and the Bankruptcy at UAL it has caused an AMFA set back.
But I still support AMFA 100% and still believe that the AMFA idea and the craft unionism is the right direction for our future.

Enjoy:

https://vimeo.com/44211395
 
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TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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I'll answer this with another question. Has that process provided positive benefit to all the members that have bought in to it's system of unionism? Keep in mind that at the beginning of 2000 they had approximately 25,000 members and have approximately less than 90% of that number now with most losing their jobs to outsourcing. Yes, no there may be 25% or more jobs lost due to outsourcing in BK but then that still nowhere near adds up to the 90% lost with AMFA represented members.

The structure you outlined has not delivered on its promises, unless you are in the privileged 10%.

FYI - AMFA does not just represent A&Ps. They represent everyone in the M&R class and craft which includes, aircraft cleaners, janitors, painters, parts washers, facilities mechanics, and automotive mechanics per the NMB.

You know when scabs are dispatched with industrial union assistance, and every attempt is made to disrupt the idea of craft unionism by the industrial unionism, you have alot of gall to ask negative questions.

I will always be a believer in the craft union philosophy, and until I am dead, I will reject and disagree with industrial unionism.
 
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Tex-Mech

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You know when scabs are dispatched with industrial union assistance, and every attempt is made to disrupt the idea of craft unionism by the industrial unionism, you have alot of gall to ask negative questions.

I will always be a believer in the craft union philosophy, and until I am dead, I will reject and disagree with industrial unionism.

Isn't it ironic that the Teamster are raiding the TWU with Gordon Clark leading the charge, the same Gordon Clark that held a scab fair for the NWA AMFA strike as a TWU President. :blink:
 
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CMH_GSE

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Apr 22, 2012
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I thought the original post about all the bullet points of AMFA's good side were solid points.

I also thought that Overspeeds question was a fair one that I would like to see an answer to.

Why don't we just stay focused on the original intent of the thread and stay on point and we may get somewhere.

AMFA may well be a viable alternative , maybe not , but there are some things that need to be explained.

I would like someone from AMFA to explain why GSE mechanics at NW were walked out like orphans.

The SWA guys really like AMFA so there is hope, I'm willing to listen to explanations that speak to mistakes that were made in the past and what they have done and what could be done to keep from repeating them in the future.

If a representation vote is in our future, we need to learn as much as we can.
 

TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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I thought the original post about all the bullet points of AMFA's good side were solid points.

I also thought that Overspeeds question was a fair one that I would like to see an answer to.

Why don't we just stay focused on the original intent of the thread and stay on point and we may get somewhere.

AMFA may well be a viable alternative , maybe not , but there are some things that need to be explained.

I would like someone from AMFA to explain why GSE mechanics at NW were walked out like orphans.

The SWA guys really like AMFA so there is hope, I'm willing to listen to explanations that speak to mistakes that were made in the past and what they have done and what could be done to keep from repeating them in the future.

If a representation vote is in our future, we need to learn as much as we can.

I believe we have already proven you to be a liar and not even who you said you were when you arrived, just like overspeed. In fact my bet is you and overspeed are in fact the same person.

Get lost!
 
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CMH_GSE

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Apr 22, 2012
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Your rhetoric isn't winning any votes . this isn't about who I am , this isn't about you.

How about we just have someone in the know at AMFA answer the concerns brought forward and we can move on.
 

TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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Your rhetoric isn't winning any votes . this isn't about who I am , this isn't about you.

How about we just have someone in the know at AMFA answer the concerns brought forward and we can move on.

You seem to know all about what happened and you brought it up...
so...
Share your version first and more information, and then we will get the real facts.

meanwhile the topic...

https://vimeo.com/44211395
 

CMH_GSE

Veteran
Apr 22, 2012
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I work for AA, I just remember the NW GSE guys getting walked out en mass, I don't know why or what steps AMFA took before or after, maybe, just maybe you could dial up some of your AMFA buddies and have them give us the whole story without the attitude.
 

TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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I work for AA, I just remember the NW GSE guys getting walked out en mass, I don't know why or what steps AMFA took before or after, maybe, just maybe you could dial up some of your AMFA buddies and have them give us the whole story without the attitude.

I work for AA too, I know more about the TWA guys getting walked out en mass.
 

TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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What TWA guys got walked out due to the TWU? MCIE was closed due to a shrinking fleet and STL was downsized because AA did not need the hub anymore.

I understand, but you and all the other TWU cronies blamed AMFA for years now, when the same thing happened at other carriers.

So which is it? Fleet reductions and the cycles of this industry or does the Union on the property take the blame for all instances of negative environment?

You can't have it both ways, which do you choose?

When Northwest and United shut down maintenance bases, there were daily TWU newletters blaming AMFA, but those shutterings were no different than MCIE and now AFW. I just figure since AMFA was blamed for years on end, that the TWU must be to blame now.

Why do all TWU zealots have a double standard on every negative industry issue?
 
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