AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[1AA]

Yes frustrating indeed. Although the asso is fighting for their lives ($$$) they are also further delaying the enedible. They have so far successfully maintained their positions and jobs for 4 months now and will more than likely get another month or two until the vote is announced and done. And I am sure they might even appeal the results, if they can, just to throw their final thorn in the sides of the membership one last time. Can only hope this April 2nd deadline IS the final deadline. Feeling confident in the AMFA Organizers, National and Legal to prevail the objections and challenges as well as the additions that the asso. is trying to just throw in there at the last minute to try and derail a vote. just by this asso trying to add other groups and employees without them having any say so in the matter should get even more mechanic and related to vote against them. They are proving how much the asso depends on more and more different groups within the asso so they can maintain the control.

In the past other groups were attempted to be added but previous rulings and lack of proof shut the TWU down. I have no idea which groups they are attempting this time but if I was to guess based on all the experiences I've had on prior drives and filings I would guess anyone that touches the aircraft is what they are attempting. A lav service person, a fueler under AA employment, the person who attaches a tow bar, cabin service or other AA employees who perform cabin security inspections and so on. Next they will claim pilots and flight attendants. I know I'm stretching here but they will throw everyone on the list and hopefully can get enough to dilute the count and kill the filing.

 

[swamt]

In the past other groups were attempted to be added but previous rulings and lack of proof shut the TWU down. I have no idea which groups they are attempting this time but if I was to guess based on all the experiences I've had on prior drives and filings I would guess anyone that touches the aircraft is what they are attempting. A lav service person, a fueler under AA employment, the person who attaches a tow bar, cabin service or other AA employees who perform cabin security inspections and so on. Next they will claim pilots and flight attendants. I know I'm stretching here but they will throw everyone on the list and hopefully can get enough to dilute the count and kill the filing.

An Organizer contacted me over the weekend and said they feel very confident in responding to the additions the asso is trying to just throw out there in hopes that it sticks. Pretty sure the asso didn't provide enough proof or evidence for the additional groups and/or employees to be added to the class and craft and the Organizers, National and Legal will show all the reasons they cannot be part of the class and craft.
And remember 1AA, even if the NMB allows some or none of the added groups, the mechanics still need to split off all the separate groups onto their own contracts like we did here with the cleaners, mx control, trainers, fac. maint ect...
This way all groups are represented and focussed on all the same across the board AND all groups vote on issues pertaining to their group NOT the other groups. Taking the separate contract steps was a win-win for all groups involved. This way you don't get what you guys have now where the majority of fleet has the most control of what is in or out of the contract which this asso. loves currently at AA and it sux for all the other groups who are the minority. ***C'mon April 2nd*** One more week. Hopefully we will all hear Fri. but don't expect the NMB to put something out until the following week, maybe AMFA National might give a hint on Fri. if they can...

 

[1AA]

An Organizer contacted me over the weekend and said they feel very confident in responding to the additions the asso is trying to just throw out there in hopes that it sticks. Pretty sure the asso didn't provide enough proof or evidence for the additional groups and/or employees to be added to the class and craft and the Organizers, National and Legal will show all the reasons they cannot be part of the class and craft.
And remember 1AA, even if the NMB allows some or none of the added groups, the mechanics still need to split off all the separate groups onto their own contracts like we did here with the cleaners, mx control, trainers, fac. maint ect...
This way all groups are represented and focussed on all the same across the board AND all groups vote on issues pertaining to their group NOT the other groups. Taking the separate contract steps was a win-win for all groups involved. This way you don't get what you guys have now where the majority of fleet has the most control of what is in or out of the contract which this asso. loves currently at AA and it sux for all the other groups who are the minority. ***C'mon April 2nd*** One more week. Hopefully we will all hear Fri. but don't expect the NMB to put something out until the following week, maybe AMFA National might give a hint on Fri. if they can...

I hear they want to add fleet in some cases because they ride brakes and move aircraft at some stations. Job description vs title group is not the same. NMB decides title groups. Company and unions negotiate and determine job functions on station to station needs. I say add pilots to the list. They run engines for maintenance isses when passengers are onboard. That's a maintenance function but pilots do it in some situations. Let's forget about title groups and go with job descriptions instead. How ridiculous this is heading. Lets just get it over and get a vote done. If the Association did such a great job then why a card drive? That's my repetitive question to these guys. No valid answer just a deflection response.

 

[eolesen]

And now we move into another month of challenges and counter challenges. The organizing committee filed on Friday, November 13th 2020. Now we move into April 2021 and yet too see the outcome.

This has been in motion since 2002 or 2003. Another week, another month... it's a marathon, not a race.

 

[1AA]

This has been in motion since 2002 or 2003. Another week, another month... it's a marathon, not a race.

Actually I recall our first drive at AA all the way back to 1987 when I had hair.

 

[swamt]

I hear they want to add fleet in some cases because they ride brakes and move aircraft at some stations. Job description vs title group is not the same. NMB decides title groups. Company and unions negotiate and determine job functions on station to station needs. I say add pilots to the list. They run engines for maintenance isses when passengers are onboard. That's a maintenance function but pilots do it in some situations. Let's forget about title groups and go with job descriptions instead. How ridiculous this is heading. Lets just get it over and get a vote done. If the Association did such a great job then why a card drive? That's my repetitive question to these guys. No valid answer just a deflection response.

The Organizers, National and Legal are more than prepared to argue the additions you gave. I think the NMB requires a certain level of ongoing work be a larger proportion of the work day every day before allowing certain additions. I don't know the formula they use but riding brakes is not enough to get added as that is only done once in a while.
Pretty sure the NMB will see the 2,000 trying to be added as a wish list and a desperate grasp by the asso., and the NMB also says the additions must be followed by documented evidence work performed ect... I don't see where the asso. or the company would have the evidence. AND IF these "fleet" folks are so well deserving of being included in the Class and Craft of the Mechanic and Related why are they NOT already included? Hello asso.! Why now all of a sudden do they want to add 2,000 more to the mechanic and related when they were never a part of them for the last 75 years at AA or longer? The Organizers I spoke with are very confident on AMFA answering the challenges and additions by the asso.

I understand the frustration and the waiting. Just 4 more days brother, and we should at least hear something or have some sort of clue on how this will move forward and when.

 

[JimmyBop]

In the past other groups were attempted to be added but previous rulings and lack of proof shut the TWU down. I have no idea which groups they are attempting this time but if I was to guess based on all the experiences I've had on prior drives and filings I would guess anyone that touches the aircraft is what they are attempting. A lav service person, a fueler under AA employment, the person who attaches a tow bar, cabin service or other AA employees who perform cabin security inspections and so on. Next they will claim pilots and flight attendants. I know I'm stretching here but they will throw everyone on the list and hopefully can get enough to dilute the count and kill the filing.

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

 

[dfw gen]

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

Included at the twu's request.

 

[1AA]

T

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

They also added dead people and retired people and management as well. Care to comment on that?

 

[dfw gen]

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

the difference with this drive is that the company wants to be rid of the association also. they cant get a straight answer out of the twu or the iam and when they do both unions take opposite stances. anyone with any experience dealing with the association will say the same thing it was a terrible idea. except of course the ones depositing the dues checks....

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

JimmyBop;

No matter what gets said or by who the NMB determines who and what groups are included into the M&R class and craft. The LAV truck drivers have been included each and every time per the NMB. The argument M&R has with it is that it is a BID slot job, gotten by seniority, Year in/out when bid happens the men/women who perform this task change. Getting this or taking another job within the Fleet work group is a choice each member. These individuals won't have many other choices in the M&R class and craft to bid. They don't bid with GSE or FACILITIES. Some jobs at other carriers are included but here at AA we no longer have those members.

As far as the fleet members moving aircraft those slots in the Fleet bid change as well with seniority. AA and the ASSOC. will have to decide which group aircraft movement is accomplished by, that may determine class and craft as well. But could bite those members performing that task. Since they will No longer bid with fleet within the TWU/IAM, If AMFA replaces the ASSOC.and it is decided it's a M&R function. If AA says it is a Fleet job then those members will remain TWU/IAM members. If AMFA replaces ASSOC. they will lose whatever benefits they have under the ASSOC. and will have to get whatever benefits that get negotiated with AMFA.

Moving around different workgroups within the same union is what it is now. But those jobs being attempted to be added to the M&R class and craft to dilute the card numbers to prevent a VOTE, could cause a major disruption in manys lives if AMFA gets in still. Those members will have limited job availability.

The TWU/IAM is just looking at dues lost if M&R changes union. This is the only reason they are attempting to add these groups. I would bet if it looks as though AMFA still has the card count to get a VOTE, the ASSOC. will change it's mind and then say those members are part of fleet not wanting to lose dues from those members as well and the rest of M&R.

What ever is going to happen with the members that the ASSOC. is attempting to add will be decided by the NMB after this Friday since this is supposed to be the deadline for all challenges to the filing of AMFA to replace the TWU/IAM for M&R.

SO NO AMFA CONFUSION, NO LIES, NO FUFF

 

[swamt]

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

The TWU can say they want in whoever they want, but when it comes down to it, it's the NMB that will decide who will be in the Mechanic Class and Craft and WHO AMFA shall include as far as representation goes.

 

[swamt]

the difference with this drive is that the company wants to be rid of the association also. they cant get a straight answer out of the twu or the iam and when they do both unions take opposite stances. anyone with any experience dealing with the association will say the same thing it was a terrible idea. except of course the ones depositing the dues checks....

So the co. is getting sick of the 2 unions butting heads still too? Interesting. Of course the co. can not get the TWU always agreeing to all their demands now that the two are always butting heads and the internal fighting between the two of what they would accept or not accept.
So are you saying that the co. will not help or assist the asso. in sticking around this time around? Very interesting, but very fitting as well...

 

[swamt]

JimmyBop;

No matter what gets said or by who the NMB determines who and what groups are included into the M&R class and craft. The LAV truck drivers have been included each and every time per the NMB. The argument M&R has with it is that it is a BID slot job, gotten by seniority, Year in/out when bid happens the men/women who perform this task change. Getting this or taking another job within the Fleet work group is a choice each member. These individuals won't have many other choices in the M&R class and craft to bid. They don't bid with GSE or FACILITIES. Some jobs at other carriers are included but here at AA we no longer have those members.

As far as the fleet members moving aircraft those slots in the Fleet bid change as well with seniority. AA and the ASSOC. will have to decide which group aircraft movement is accomplished by, that may determine class and craft as well. But could bite those members performing that task. Since they will No longer bid with fleet within the TWU/IAM, If AMFA replaces the ASSOC.and it is decided it's a M&R function. If AA says it is a Fleet job then those members will remain TWU/IAM members. If AMFA replaces ASSOC. they will lose whatever benefits they have under the ASSOC. and will have to get whatever benefits that get negotiated with AMFA.

Moving around different workgroups within the same union is what it is now. But those jobs being attempted to be added to the M&R class and craft to dilute the card numbers to prevent a VOTE, could cause a major disruption in manys lives if AMFA gets in still. Those members will have limited job availability.

The TWU/IAM is just looking at dues lost if M&R changes union. This is the only reason they are attempting to add these groups. I would bet if it looks as though AMFA still has the card count to get a VOTE, the ASSOC. will change it's mind and then say those members are part of fleet not wanting to lose dues from those members as well and the rest of M&R.

What ever is going to happen with the members that the ASSOC. is attempting to add will be decided by the NMB after this Friday since this is supposed to be the deadline for all challenges to the filing of AMFA to replace the TWU/IAM for M&R.

SO NO AMFA CONFUSION, NO LIES, NO FUFF

In other words, "BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR"
The same can be said about another airline that added aircraft maint. supervisors to the eligibility list and the NMB accepted them. Now the airline will be facing future drives that will include them and when they get enough cards signed they will regret having their maint supervisors also represented by the union covering the mechanics and related, so;

"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR"

 

[swamt]

Every AMFA drive in the past at AA has included fleet lav technicians...now, all of a sudden, you don't want them included? Typical AMFA confusion, lies and fluff. This drive is doomed.

Correction; "This asso. is doomed!!!"