AMFA Post

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 9/19/2002 11:48:02 AM wrenchbender wrote:

There is a little known agreement between AFL/CIO unions called article (X) anti raiding clause.
If 100 percent of the members petitioned teamsters for representation they would refuse because the IAM is also AFL/CIO.



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[/blockquote]

Not so sure about that. The Teamsters will not Raid which is actively running a campaign against another AFL-CIO union. But if the Mechanics on their own pass out and sign cards requesting representation they just might do it. The Teamsters are not afraid of offending other Unions. They actively ran campaigns at non-union auto plants thumbing their nose at the UAW!!

 

[willnotworkforfree]

[blockquote]
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On 9/19/2002 1245 PM AAmech wrote:

The Answer is: Start your own Union. A Union that would represent U mechanics ONLY!!! Why entangle yourselfs with the problems of others? We've all had a few years to sitback, watch and see AMFA in action and gee, it looks like more of the same @#$%!! No 100 bucks an hour. No getting the "Respect" that the pilots get. Bagsmashers still get raises. And lots more farming out of the Unions work. AMFA has a history of being long on talk and short on action. Start your own Union!!
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[/blockquote]
Well show US the way Oh Great Obewan. I will sign the first card.

 

[AAmech]

The Answer is: Start your own Union. A Union that would represent U mechanics ONLY!!! Why entangle yourselfs with the problems of others? We've all had a few years to sitback, watch and see AMFA in action and gee, it looks like more of the same @#$%!! No 100 bucks an hour. No getting the Respect that the pilots get. Bagsmashers still get raises. And lots more farming out of the Unions work. AMFA has a history of being long on talk and short on action. Start your own Union!!

 

[Jet Mechanic]

On 9/19/2002 11:57:14 AM Lakeguy67 wrote:


I would say it is a big no, we still have a contract and be it a concessionary one, people are failing to see the bottom line. US Airways is out of cash, plain and simple, otherwise they would not be in chapter 11.


Lakeguy67,

The snipped post above is rather obtuse (as is the rest of the message) and I'm rather uncertain of where you're coming from in this discussion. If, as you allude to we have an airline with the possibility of a future, it is imperative to have new union representation. Events of the last six weeks would have been MUCH different if the mechanics had been represented by AMFA. The very first thing that comes to my mind is we would have had timely information and the ability to sit in on discussions between the Company and the Union. I have personally had enough of the cloak-and-dagger mentality of the IAM.

Going back to U being a going concern... do any of us know what issues we'll be facing in the next six months, eighteen months, etc.? I sure don't know, but I do know that whatever the events the IAM will not represent me and my fellow mechanics in a way we deserve. I, along with many other professional mechanics would rather be represented by AMFA and know that TOGETHER we will be strong.

Jet Mechanic

 

[sabre]

Actually the IBT is ready to leave the AFL early next year when the Trustee thing is over.

But, regarding NW and health cost. The IAM took the 20% increase also.

 

[will fix for food]

I, along with many other professional mechanics would rather be represented by AMFA and know that TOGETHER we will be strong.

Jet Mechanic

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[/blockquote]

Although I like the idea of a craft union I wonder what the actual real world benefit of having all the mechanics in one union would be. Many hold up ALPA as the model to strive for. However, if one ALPA represented airline goes on strike, the other ALPA pilots can/t sympathy strike, so no big gain there. In fact having the regional pilots and mainline both represented by ALPA is causing lawsuits.Just check out that whole RJDC mess over at Comair/Delta.So what is the benefit? What am I missing?

Don/t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with the AMFA concept, although I do kind of like the idea of AMFA and the other unions trying to outdo each other at the negotiation table in the quest for the almighty dues. I think that competition has more to do with the bigger raises lately than any union, AMFA included, trying to do right by their members.

 

[t-man]

Thanks for setting me strait Wrenchbender.

 

[t-man]

Lakeguy,
FYI, The farming is about to start very soon.
They just annouced that they are eliminating 220 mechs and related jobs in PIT.
180 mechs.and the rest I believe are utliity.
Our director told us that they are eliminating 2nd shift Fluid,Electric,Instrument shops.
Also, They will eliminate 2 Q checks in heavy maint.

 

[Lakeguy67]

[BR][SPAN class=BodyFont][EM]Lakeguy,[BR]FYI, The farming is about to start very soon.[BR]They just annouced that they are eliminating 220 mechs and related jobs in PIT.[BR]180 mechs.and the rest I believe are utliity.[BR]Our director told us that they are eliminating 2nd shift Fluid,Electric,Instrument shops.[BR]Also, They will eliminate 2 Q checks in heavy maint.[BR][/EM][/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=BodyFont][STRONG]They are not farming out, we own all the work, they just parked 29 737-300/400s that is why there are emliminating one Q check now and replacing it with a C from Tampa and the other Q check will be gone in July and replaced with another C from Tampa, as Tampa will do more Cockpit door mods and they are getting the HMV on the A319/20/21.[/STRONG][/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=BodyFont][STRONG]They cannot farm out work we presently do or have the capability that we do. You need to read your contract and understand it. When you park planes there is less work to be done. In fact in our new concessionary agreement there is more work that will be brought in house.[/STRONG][/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=BodyFont][BR][BR][STRONG]Productivity Exchange. The parties agree to meet to discuss modifications to IAM's collective bargaining agreement to allow IAM represented employees to buy-back wage concessions in exchange for productivity.[/STRONG][BR][BR][STRONG]In addition, a standing committee of Union and Management Members will be established no later than January 1, 2003 with the responsibility of exploring and implementing measures to achieve cost savings by insourcing of work, improving the efficiency of operations and/or by any other methods that create cost savings for US Airways.[/STRONG][/SPAN]

 

[Bob Owens]

Will fix for food;
While the idea of unions trying to outdo each other sounds good it doesnt really happen. At least not until recently. The No-Raid clause prevents any real competition between the IAM,TWU and IBT. The exception being AMFA, which has membership drives going at UAL,AA, Delta and USAIR.
One of the benifits of all the mechanics in one union would be that the union would have the resources to monitor and thus have some input on legislative changes. While the IAM,IBT and TWU do monitor and mobilize on a lot of legislative issues such as S-1327 and Far 145, other, equally important changes go virtually unnoticed such as FAR66. One of the reasons for this is that S-1327 will effect all airline workers and set a dangerous precident for all labor, part 145 will mean the loss of union jobs, but FAR66 will just mean a shift of work away from A&P liscenced mechanics. The work would still remain in the union so the IAM,IBT and TWU do not recognize this as threatening legislation. For the A&P it would have the immediate effect of lowering the demand for A&Ps. The apparent lack of concern over this change to the FAR is displayed in the AA-TWU mechanic and related agreement that sounds almost condescending. The language was inserted after several of the line Maint locals brought the issue up during negotiations. The language fails to address the problem. AMFA is the only mechanics union but due to its relatively small size it lacks the resources to address this issue. Lack of AFL-CIO political clout also would hamper efforts to block FAR66.
While many may discount AFL-CIO political clout there has been discussion amongst the leadership of the APA over merging with ALPA, the main benifit being affiliation. ALPA and the APA have both been very successful at keeping a tight lid on any legislation that could effect pilots. Without a doubt ALPA gets more recognition from the government. Both of these organizations are committed to preserving the value of the aviators certificates that their members hold. They fight to preserve pilots work and standards. There is no such drive in the IAM,IBT or TWU because none of those unions are aviation specific, let alone mechanic specific. Mechanics also posess airmans certificates. What has worked for the pilots could work for mechanics.
Right now we are in a fix. The big unions that represent us are not really interested in blocking FAR66 and AMFA apparently does not have the resources. If we were in a union like ALPA the situation could be quite different.A large union with resorces and political clout could address issues that are specific to our craft.

 

[RV4]

Bob Owens rhetoric:

While the IAM,IBT and TWU do monitor and mobilize on a lot of legislative issues such as S-1327 and Far 145, other, equally important changes go virtually unnoticed such as FAR66.

Bob,

Give us details on the success of this monitor and mobilize activity of the industrial unions. What have they accomplished?

Your politics and dependence on Government is appalling! Seems the all powerful AFL-CIO would just force contract language into negotiations that would protect us from these attacks. Would be a hell of a lot easier than dealing with the back stabbing, lying, in it for cash politicians?

 

[will fix for food]

[blockquote]
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On 9/20/2002 924 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Will fix for food;
While the idea of unions trying to outdo each other sounds good it doesnt really happen. At least not until recently. The No-Raid clause prevents any real competition between the IAM,TWU and IBT. The exception being AMFA, which has membership drives going at UAL,AA, Delta and USAIR.


I agree that there was a lot of complacency prior to the resurgence of AMFA, which is why I give credit to AMFA for the recent competition that has given us the wage boost. In the back of my mind though I wonder if AMFA could fall into the same trap as the AFL-CIO unions if they were to get all the mechanics under their umbrella. Of course there is no earthly way of knowing.


One of the benifits of all the mechanics in one union would be..... large union with resorces and political clout could address issues that are specific to our craft.
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[/blockquote]


At one point I read that AMFA was not politically active as a matter of policy. Has this policy been changed?

 

[nvrsaynvr]

[SPAN class=BodyFont][STRONG]They are not farming out, we own all the work, they just parked 29 737-300/400s that is why there are emliminating one Q check now and replacing it with a C from Tampa and the other Q check will be gone in July and replaced with another C from Tampa, as Tampa will do more Cockpit door mods and they are getting the HMV on the A319/20/21.[/STRONG][/SPAN]

[SPAN class=BodyFont][STRONG]They cannot farm out work we presently do or have the capability that we do. You need to read your contract and understand it. When you park planes there is less work to be done. In fact in our new concessionary agreement there is more work that will be brought in house.[/STRONG][/SPAN]

[SPAN class=BodyFont]

[STRONG]"Productivity Exchange. The parties agree to meet to discuss modifications to IAM's collective bargaining agreement to allow IAM represented employees to "buy-back" wage concessions in exchange for productivity.[/STRONG]

[STRONG]In addition, a standing committee of Union and Management Members will be established no later than January 1, 2003 with the responsibility of exploring and implementing measures to achieve cost savings by insourcing of work, improving the efficiency of operations and/or by any other methods that create cost savings for US Airways."[/STRONG][/SPAN]
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[/blockquote]
Good post lakeguy, sometimes a big difference in rhetoric on a chat board and fact.

I personally am dismayed that few posting here seem to understand the importance of their own involvement in their union, be it IAM or otherwise. The memebership is the union, and the union will be no more than the membership makes it. When I first became an employee of Piedmont Airlines I had a negative perspective on unionism, due largely to my inexperience with unions. I was invited to attend meetings by a shop steward who felt that once I familiarized myself with the processes within a union, I would have a better attitude toward them. He was right. I was impressed with the concern and dedication exhibited by our membership. In that day our union was still in its infancy, the attendance at meetings was good, employees were represented well from each department, and we for years enjoyeed good raises, work rules and benefits. As years passed the attendance and interest waned, and I percieved a direct correlation between satisfaction with the union and participation by it's membership. I do not wish to appear on a soapbox here as I am hardly involved with the union's business myself, but I do not wish to delude myself that it is entirely a them thing. It is a we thing first, and even at the time I might be heard *****in, I want to remember my own participation, or lack of it, so I at least maintain hope of having it better. If I forget who's really responsible, and begin to think a they will come and rescue me and bestow upon me many great things, I will then become the most vulnerable to corporate whim.

 

[Bob Owens]

Will fix for food;
At one point I read that AMFA was not politically active as a matter of policy. Has this policy been changed?
If it hasnt it must. At an IRRA conference in Washington DC last year I met, if I remember correctly Kevin Wildermuth and a Mr Young. The fact is that even the best contractual language can be undermined by legislative changes. Big Business has always been tied to politics and labor must be in there or we will simply be clobbered. Big Business has always been involved in politics and some of our greatest Presidents recognized the treat they posed to Democracy. Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt all battled the commercial encroachment on Democracy by monied interests. For the last 100 years the labor movement(for better or worse) has been the sole voice in defence of the right of the working man to share in the wealth that their labor, skills and sacrifices help create.In this industry we have 3 major issues that must be addressed in the political arena, Far145, Far66 and S-1327. Ingnoring these issues could be devestating to our careers.
At the IRRA conference a Bush spokesman told the conference that cheap air transportation was essential and that obviously if an airline has low ticket prices that they could not support a high wage structure. He said that the administration would use its powers to keep wages down so that the public would still have access to cheap air transportation. The ATSB is an obvious result of this policy where workers are threatened with job loss unless they agree to pay cuts. Why is our government going after working class peoples incomes while at the same time trying to further enrich the top 1%?
The fact is that the government receives a huge amount of taxes from this industry. Some of those taxes were supposed to be for expansion of the infastructure of the airports and ATC but it was used for other purposes. In 6 weeks we will be voting (I hope). Find out where the candidates stand on issues such as FAR145, FAR66, S-1327 and the governments use of the ATSB to force airline workers to transfer the wealth that they earn through their labor to investors. Then, vote accordingly.

 

[diogenes]

A brief stroll through union 101.

The IAM is organized along local, district, and international lodges. Think of it as local, state and federal government.

There is not one single officer or member of the local lodge whose salary is paid by the union. Every president, trustee, etc. is a full time airline employee. The local will arrange for lost time to be paid to any union member engaged in authorized (and generally voted upon by the membership) union business. If a member attends a safety conference, the local pays his time away from work. The local will throw a bone to it's officers, sometimes up to $50 a month. For grievances, the district lodge will arrange for elected committeemen the necessary time from work to handle said grievances.

I said all that to say this. At the local level, where we all have a direct say in it's operation, we ain't in it for the money or glory. My union activities costs me time from my family. Why do it? To enforce this contract, and live to negotiate a better one ( at U, I better live a long time!).

Are there weasels at all levels of the union? Yes, just like any other organization. Does the IAM piss you off sometimes? Me, too. But before you use that as a rationale to disengage from your union, tell me this. Do you participate in local meetings? Have you assembled a coalition or slate to run for the office you feel is being run in error? Did you run yourself? Do you sit on a committee of interest to you? Safety? EAP? Legislative? Community Action?

I am here to tell you I know of no local at U that has all standing committees fully staffed and operational - we are literally begging for good help. This personnel shortage makes us wear more hats than we want to, and devote less time to each issue than is needed.

No district or international staff of any union will ever do all the heavy lifting. The lifting must be done by the local, and the local is me and you. So come on in - the water's fine.