AMFA vs Idustrial Unions for elections of National Officers

[swamt]

The article below is copied from the AMFA Nationals web site. If we were still ibt, I garrentee you we would NOT be having another election. Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA.


National Officer Election to be Rerun Oct 25, 2012 - Posted by: National Executive Council
Dear Members:
As stated in our letter to the members on September 21, 2012, Article VII, Section 10 of the AMFA Constitution provides our members’ the right to protest any election in which the member believes AMFA election rules or Department of Labor regulations were violated, and that eight protests were filed for the National Officer Election. Accordingly, the National Executive Council (NEC) officers that were not affected by the protests conducted a thorough investigation of the issues raised within these protests.
The NEC officers conducting the investigation then consulted with AMFA legal in a detailed review of our findings. Additionally, we debated all of the relevant facts and have determined that a rerun election is warranted.
The process to conduct the rerun election has begun and we anticipate mailing ballot packages by the end of November and counting by the end of December 2012. This timeline complies with the basic guidelines for officer elections as provided for by the Department of Labor and the AMFA Constitution and accommodates the logistics associated with conducting an election.

 

[Anomaly]

The article below is copied from the AMFA Nationals web site. If we were still ibt, I garrentee you we would NOT be having another election. Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA.


National Officer Election to be Rerun Oct 25, 2012 - Posted by: National Executive Council
Dear Members:
As stated in our letter to the members on September 21, 2012, Article VII, Section 10 of the AMFA Constitution provides our members’ the right to protest any election in which the member believes AMFA election rules or Department of Labor regulations were violated, and that eight protests were filed for the National Officer Election. Accordingly, the National Executive Council (NEC) officers that were not affected by the protests conducted a thorough investigation of the issues raised within these protests.
The NEC officers conducting the investigation then consulted with AMFA legal in a detailed review of our findings. Additionally, we debated all of the relevant facts and have determined that a rerun election is warranted.
The process to conduct the rerun election has begun and we anticipate mailing ballot packages by the end of November and counting by the end of December 2012. This timeline complies with the basic guidelines for officer elections as provided for by the Department of Labor and the AMFA Constitution and accommodates the logistics associated with conducting an election.

Hey look,

swamt, you asked me to point out your lies. Here are two more.

First, the Department Of Labor would be the ones to decide to re-run the election. amfa had nothing to do with it. This decision was out if their hands as soon as the complaint was filed. IT WAS IN FACT FILED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AND NOT TO AMFA. swamt is trying to lie his way in to a situation that is just not true. The UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF LABOR (DOL) will be responsible for deciding if there will be a run off election but amfa will have to be responsible for the additional cost. They do not want to spend the funds on that. No union does. If it were up to amfa, they would work out another solution. In the end, the DOL decided to re-reun this. NOT AMFA. swamt LIED! AMFA constitution matters little in the eyes of US law and the DOL. It was LAW that enforced the re-election, not amfa.

Second, swamt quoted "Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA."
Another absolute LIE. The IBT believes in the one member one vote philosophy.

In November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

http://www.peopleswo...sters-president

swamt is and always has been a paid representative of amfa. His lies are a testament of his position.

HOW LONG WILL YOU ALL FALL VICTIM TO AMFA LIES?

Do your own research on this and you will soon find the numerous fallacies.


AMFA LIES

 

[Anomaly]

And when do thousands of AA mechanics stand up as the mechs of NWA took a stand for the AMT's of America? When Overspeed? FREAKIN when? These guys at NWA were not directed by AMFA to stay on strike. They all voted to stay out because NWA company wanted to cut more than 50% of them so they all desided to say, "if they want 50% plus then they can't have all of us." These are true union men and women, not lame freakin pusies like the AA/TWU mechs that caved time and time again to the AA companies concesions for the last freakin 3 decades!!!!
Louie Key and OV in no way shape or form direct the NWA guys what to do. They desided to do it themselves. Unlike what you boys could do yourselves at AA. Get your facts straight Overspeed. This was the most union supported employee group I have ever seen in years. I walked the picket line with all the brothers and sisters at NWA at DFW as well as in other cities. Why because AMFA local 11 more than OVERWHELMINGLY supported them while out on strike. Can you sir, say the same about your freaking "Scab Supporting" teamsters??? #### no!!! You cannot...

swamt posts comments of overwhelming solidarity in the amfa members ranks, but forgets the true definition of a scab. Many amfa members and amfa leaders crossed their own poorly planned picket lines.

http://www.laborworl...1-25-2006v5.pdf
http://www.pirep.org...3c9363ee5cf472d
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a21.shtml
http://truecapitalis...n-leadership-2/
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a23.shtml
http://www.pulsetc.c...=Print&sid=2260
http://usatoday30.us...-nwa-usat_x.htm
http://usatoday30.us...st-strike_x.htm
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

He blatantly calls American Airlines Mechanics "pussies" but refuses to admit that amfa normally holds a very weak hand. swamt is a paid representative of amfa. he will say anything to keep his job, even if it means calling AA mechanics out.

Watch out for this guy.

Sign a Teamster card and be rid of him forever,.

 

[1AA]

Hey look,

swamt, you asked me to point out your lies. Here are two more.

First, the Department Of Labor would be the ones to decide to re-run the election. amfa had nothing to do with it. This decision was out if their hands as soon as the complaint was filed. IT WAS IN FACT FILED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AND NOT TO AMFA. swamt is trying to lie his way in to a situation that is just not true. The UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF LABOR (DOL) will be responsible for deciding if there will be a run off election but amfa will have to be responsible for the additional cost. They do not want to spend the funds on that. No union does. If it were up to amfa, they would work out another solution. In the end, the DOL decided to re-reun this. NOT AMFA. swamt LIED! AMFA constitution matters little in the eyes of US law and the DOL. It was LAW that enforced the re-election, not amfa.

Second, swamt quoted "Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA."
Another absolute LIE. The IBT believes in the one member one vote philosophy.

In November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

http://www.peopleswo...sters-president

swamt is and always has been a paid representative of amfa. His lies are a testament of his position.

HOW LONG WILL YOU ALL FALL VICTIM TO AMFA LIES?

Do your own research on this and you will soon find the numerous fallacies.


AMFA LIES

Oh and the TWU is straight up front?
You ever listen to yourself?

 

[WNMECH]

swamt posts comments of overwhelming solidarity in the amfa members ranks, but forgets the true definition of a scab. Many amfa members and amfa leaders crossed their own poorly planned picket lines.

http://www.laborworl...1-25-2006v5.pdf
http://www.pirep.org...3c9363ee5cf472d
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a21.shtml
http://truecapitalis...n-leadership-2/
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a23.shtml
http://www.pulsetc.c...=Print&sid=2260
http://usatoday30.us...-nwa-usat_x.htm
http://usatoday30.us...st-strike_x.htm
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

He blatantly calls American Airlines Mechanics "pussies" but refuses to admit that amfa normally holds a very weak hand. swamt is a paid representative of amfa. he will say anything to keep his job, even if it means calling AA mechanics out.

Watch out for this guy.

Sign a Teamster card and be rid of him forever,.

SWAMT does not hold a paid position in AMFA.
He is a SWA mechanic who likes to share his opinion.

Signing a card for anyone won't make him go away no matter how much we want it. LOL.

As a matter of fact, as I have posted before, if AA mechs go AMFA then most national positions will be filled with AA mechanics due to their voting numbers.

Most local positions will be filled by AA mechs depending on how many locals they will need also.

If AA mechanics go AMFA they will be a huge part of determining the future of AMFA for all of us already in AMFA.

But you don't see AMFA national leaders trying to protect their jobs by not trying to get AA into AMFA.

If Hoffa knew he would lose his job by bringing AA into the IBT, would he still try to do it ?

We all know the answer is Hell No.

 

[swamt]

Hey look,

swamt, you asked me to point out your lies. Here are two more.

First, the Department Of Labor would be the ones to decide to re-run the election. amfa had nothing to do with it. This decision was out if their hands as soon as the complaint was filed. IT WAS IN FACT FILED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AND NOT TO AMFA. swamt is trying to lie his way in to a situation that is just not true. The UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF LABOR (DOL) will be responsible for deciding if there will be a run off election but amfa will have to be responsible for the additional cost. They do not want to spend the funds on that. No union does. If it were up to amfa, they would work out another solution. In the end, the DOL decided to re-reun this. NOT AMFA. swamt LIED! AMFA constitution matters little in the eyes of US law and the DOL. It was LAW that enforced the re-election, not amfa.

Second, swamt quoted "Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA."
Another absolute LIE. The IBT believes in the one member one vote philosophy.

In November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

http://www.peopleswo...sters-president

swamt is and always has been a paid representative of amfa. His lies are a testament of his position.

HOW LONG WILL YOU ALL FALL VICTIM TO AMFA LIES?

Do your own research on this and you will soon find the numerous fallacies.


AMFA LIES

Wrong again Anomaly. AMFA National was the ones that investigated and ruled for the re-tun of the National Officers Elections. Also you need to re-read my post on the International Officers of the ibt. I said, and I QUOTE, " Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA." It says "for all their international officers" NOT just one of them. At AMFA, ALL the National Officers are elected into their National positions, ALL of them. As well as ALL the local officers (LEC) are also elected into their positions. The only time someone is appointed is due to an abrupt vacancy taking place in the middle of ones term for office, then the LEC "votes" on a temporary fill-in until an election for a replacement can be held.
So answer this question Anomaly, as we all know you will twist and avoid as much as possible; Are ALL the international officers elected into their international positions with the ibt/teamsters?? Are ALL the local level officers and or members holding local level positions elected by the membership for their positions?? I can answer both of these questions as far as AMFA is concerned. YES. They are all elected by the membership into their positions at National levels as well as local levels. With AMFA the volentary committees chair persons and other positions are also voted on by the membership or by the membership committee members themselves.
Nice try once again to twist, turn and spin. And BTW the non affected AMFA National officers were the only ones that could rule rather there was going to be another re-ran election. The DOL may have been notified, as this is probably law, but AMFA National ruled before the DOL had to get involved to make such a ruling.

As far as my other posting about the history of the concesions at AA for numorous decades. I still stand behind it. Everyone else out here understood the posting. As harsh as some of the verbage was, it is true, and none of the AA guys have disputed it. Only you have, and it wasn't even directed towards you, you are just trying to discredit me to try and get support away from me, not going to work. Again, I stand behind my posting. Which doesn't even belong in this thread anyway.
Now back to the point, I still know if we were still under the teamster union, they would have not done their own investigation and rule for a new officer election. AMFA National followed the proper protocall prior to the DOL having to make a ruling on it. A little more research before you post Anomaly. And for you to bring in another post to try and discredit is just the usual Anomaly move. The AA mechanics know that it was not a personal attack on them personally, they understand the posting as it was written. Nice try again...

 

[swamt]

swamt posts comments of overwhelming solidarity in the amfa members ranks, but forgets the true definition of a scab. Many amfa members and amfa leaders crossed their own poorly planned picket lines.

http://www.laborworl...1-25-2006v5.pdf
http://www.pirep.org...3c9363ee5cf472d
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a21.shtml
http://truecapitalis...n-leadership-2/
http://www.wsws.org/...5/nwa-a23.shtml
http://www.pulsetc.c...=Print&sid=2260
http://usatoday30.us...-nwa-usat_x.htm
http://usatoday30.us...st-strike_x.htm
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

He blatantly calls American Airlines Mechanics "pussies" but refuses to admit that amfa normally holds a very weak hand. swamt is a paid representative of amfa. he will say anything to keep his job, even if it means calling AA mechanics out.

Watch out for this guy.

Sign a Teamster card and be rid of him forever,.

I am not a paid AMFA representative. Just here to point out the lies, and mis-leading info that the TWU and teamster supportesr will try and spread as truth to get someone to sign a card. It's the teamsters way of doing things. And we are use to it here at SWA and know what to expect from them. We even told people out here what they will do, and they did it.

 

[Anomaly]

Wrong again Anomaly. AMFA National was the ones that investigated and ruled for the re-tun of the National Officers Elections. Also you need to re-read my post on the International Officers of the ibt. I said, and I QUOTE, " Oh wait, with the ibt you can't vote for all their international officers at the top like you do with AMFA." It says "for all their international officers" NOT just one of them. At AMFA, ALL the National Officers are elected into their National positions, ALL of them. As well as ALL the local officers (LEC) are also elected into their positions. The only time someone is appointed is due to an abrupt vacancy taking place in the middle of ones term for office, then the LEC "votes" on a temporary fill-in until an election for a replacement can be held.
So answer this question Anomaly, as we all know you will twist and avoid as much as possible; Are ALL the international officers elected into their international positions with the ibt/teamsters?? Are ALL the local level officers and or members holding local level positions elected by the membership for their positions?? I can answer both of these questions as far as AMFA is concerned. YES. They are all elected by the membership into their positions at National levels as well as local levels. With AMFA the volentary committees chair persons and other positions are also voted on by the membership or by the membership committee members themselves.
Nice try once again to twist, turn and spin. And BTW the non affected AMFA National officers were the only ones that could rule rather there was going to be another re-ran election. The DOL may have been notified, as this is probably law, but AMFA National ruled before the DOL had to get involved to make such a ruling.

As far as my other posting about the history of the concesions at AA for numorous decades. I still stand behind it. Everyone else out here understood the posting. As harsh as some of the verbage was, it is true, and none of the AA guys have disputed it. Only you have, and it wasn't even directed towards you, you are just trying to discredit me to try and get support away from me, not going to work. Again, I stand behind my posting. Which doesn't even belong in this thread anyway.
Now back to the point, I still know if we were still under the teamster union, they would have not done their own investigation and rule for a new officer election. AMFA National followed the proper protocall prior to the DOL having to make a ruling on it. A little more research before you post Anomaly. And for you to bring in another post to try and discredit is just the usual Anomaly move. The AA mechanics know that it was not a personal attack on them personally, they understand the posting as it was written. Nice try again...

Swing and a miss.... Nice try swamt

Hoffa is the Teamster General President and Ken Hal is the General Secretary-Treasurer. The General Executive Board is made up of seven At Large Vice Presidents, four Eastern Regional Vice Presidents, four Central Regional Vice Presidents, two Southern Regional Vice Presidents, three Western Regional Vice Presidents, three Canadian Vice Presidents and three International Trustees. All of these ELECTED positions are voted on by the membership. Not just one of them.

There are hundreds of Teamsters local unions across North America. The local unions and their members are the heart and backbone of the union.

Unlike other labor unions, the Teamsters Union is structured to promote strong local unions, and strong local leaders. Since the locals negotiate most Teamsters contracts and provide most of the services to the members, they keep most of the dues money. Locals retain their own expert labor lawyers, certified public accountants, full-time business agents, organizers, and clerical staff.

The members of each local elect their own officers, devise their own structure, and vote on their own bylaws, compatible with the International Constitution and Bylaws. While enjoying their independence, the locals benefit from the expertise and assistance of the International Union, and of the various conferences and councils in the union’s structure.

http://www.teamster.org/content/teamsters-structure
http://www.teamster.org/content/international-vice-presidents-and-trustees
http://www.teamster.org/content/organizational-chart

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

n November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

So the teamsters have over 137,172 members who voted for Hoffa? Out of that number how many are AMTs?

We have the same problem with the twu where AMTs are the minority as AMTs are with the teamsters.

With AMFA AMTs elect National Officers. There are no casino dealers, subway workers or taxi drivers voting on AMT issues. Just like a craft union should be structured.

 

[Overspeed]

n November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

So the teamsters have over 137,172 members who voted for Hoffa? Out of that number how many are AMTs?

We have the same problem with the twu where AMTs are the minority as AMTs are with the teamsters.

With AMFA AMTs elect National Officers. There are no casino dealers, subway workers or taxi drivers voting on AMT issues. Just like a craft union should be structured.

Ken if you were working at UPS making what they do you wouldn't squeak one bit mighty mouse. The election process doesn't mean anything as long as you get paid what you want. The IBT did a good job of that with their UPS contract did they not? Then who cares how many AMTs voted in Hoffa.

The AMFA process got them leadership that successfully gave up 80% of their dues paying members jobs. At least the IBT has not done that at UA, CO, or UPS. AMFA, uh...not so much. Their elected officials did not enforce the UA/IAM scope language, stop AS from shutting down the OAK base, or get back the jobs of the thousands of NW AMT's that lost their jobs did they? No they didn't. Instead they "elected" OV a nice $565K present in exchange for losing 15,000 jobs on his short watch.

 

[Bob Owens]

n November 2011 Hoffa won his General President elected position by 137,172 votes, ahead of challengers Fred Gagare (54,148) and Sandy Pope (39,251). There were 13,457 challenged ballots.

They have over 1million members , seems like a small turnout for the vote. "All in" only around 20% of the members voted.

 

[Anomaly]

They have over 1million members , seems like a small turnout for the vote. "All in" only around 20% of the members voted.

Apathy in our country Bob. Do you really want to get in to voter turnout?

 

[DNTULSA]

Apathy in our country Bob. Do you really want to get in to voter turnout?

Please do...

I haven't read any teamster lies today!