AMR might need help

[TWAnr]

I meant to add that the only difference between the JW group and the THB group is the names.

In some respects the current regime is much worse than the old one. THB & Co. keep signing Letters of Agreement which enable the company to lower aircraft staffing which in turn permit a lower overall headcount thus keeping the furloughed masses on the street.

 

[eolesen]

How many employees do you think are left at AA that have less than 5 years? Outside of RES and Flight Service, I would be willing to bet not many. In fact, I would guess that out of approx. 70,000 active employees there are less than 2,000 of us in that category.

I think there are a lot more than that.

Looking at the TWU seniority lists, there are at least 500 FSC's and 500 in Plant Maintenance with less than five years. There are also another 100 or so in Stores, and 20 AMT's. That's about 1100.

Looking at the system lists for Res, 850 were hired in the past five years.

Throw in another 1000 or so for support staff and management, and that's close to 4000 employees just inside the US, or roughly 5.7% of all employees.


Personally, I don't have a problem expecting people with less seniority to be paying a service charge. Most of us who started after 1985 took flack from the slightly more senior employees who had to wait up to seven years to get unlimited D2 passes. Before the policy changed in the early 80's, you only got a few passes per year depending on seniority.


The bigger point here, though, is that AA is one of the few carriers who hasn't allowed travel privileges to become a contractual item, and rightly so. Open that door, and you'll have the pilots trying to go after a higher personal classification for themselves as they did a few years back.

 

[jimntx]

I think there are a lot more than that.

Looking at the TWU seniority lists, there are at least 500 FSC's and 500 in Plant Maintenance with less than five years. There are also another 100 or so in Stores, and 20 AMT's. That's about 1100.

Looking at the system lists for Res, 850 were hired in the past five years.

Throw in another 1000 or so for support staff and management, and that's close to 4000 employees just inside the US, or roughly 5.7% of all employees.

First off, can you say there was a net increase of 1100 in FSC and Plant Maintenance? Or, is that just a gross number of people hired? In Res, I am sure that they have not increased staff by 850. They run people through Res like cattle through an auction because they get those people who want the glamor of an airline job. But, when they find out that the job involves answering calls 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and you really have no control over the rate at which calls come in to your phone, they quit.

I don't know about your part of the company, but in Flight Service I haven't seen any new faces in support or management for over 3 years. They just shuffle chairs. And, most of the FSMs that have been "hired" in the last 3 years are from the flight attendant corps; so, gain of one in FSMs is a loss of one among f/as.

But, even so. My point was NOT that I have to pay a service charge. My point was that flight attendants from other airlines do not have to pay a service charge when flying on American. And, yes I could fly free on SW or Frontier, but the only place I might want to do that is commuting on SW to STL. But, then I would have to pay for parking at DAL which would be more than the AA service charge for DFW-STL.

And, even if your figures are absolutely accurate and 5.7% of the employees have less than 5 years...On any given day or month, how many of those newer employees are non-revving anywhere? I doubt we are getting the rent paid with the non-rev charges.

Oh, and yes I have also gotten the "well, when I started we had to fly for 7 years before we got one pass a year" story. My response is, "Yes, and this route used to be run with a wagon train, but you know, times change."

 

[eolesen]

First off, can you say there was a net increase of 1100 in FSC and Plant Maintenance? Or, is that just a gross number of people hired? In Res, I am sure that they have not increased staff by 850.

Those were the net increases, not the gross. Gross would be higher as you said because of the number of people who quit within their first year.

And a slight correction... It's only 800 or so for the TWU. I went back to check my numbers, and found a number of ex-TW people in one of the subtotals, and forgot to exclude some who were currently on furlough.

I also got a couple counts from someone who knows how to get info on the other job classifications, and the total of employees currenly on payroll and hired since Jan 30, 2001 is really closer to 6000, with 2700 of them being based outside the US.

"Yes, and this route used to be run with a wagon train, but you know, times change."

I need to remember that line!...

 

[B.O.B.]

Oh? You mean that precious unity where you "senior" f/as were more than happy to throw us junior flight attendants under the bus without even furlough pay? I read all about that.

And, don't give me the cr*p about you had nothing to do with it. Not one of you stood up and said this is wrong. And, I don't want to hear the lie about how you were all just trying to save the job so that there would be something for us to come back to when we were recalled. All I hear from the senior f/as is what a terrible job this is now and not worth it.

Actually, I love my job and I'm good at it. But, I am a realist. The job pays what it pays. The job has the benefits it has. And, no amount of b*tching about how it used to be is going to get back one dime of what your so-called Unity gave up. You will NEVER get it back.

You don't have a union. You just have a group on Useless Boulevard who have taken vows in the Order of the Perpetually Trip Removed. As long as they don't have to work on airplanes that have passengers on them, they think everything is just fine. Did you notice the request in the hotline for somebody--anybody--to submit their name for the place 5 Ad-Hoc Executive Committee position? With almost 19,000 "active" members, they got exactly zero Willingness to Serve notifications from the membership. Yeah, a real union and a passionate membership. You're such a union firebrand, why didn't you submit your name?

And, I will stay until I am ready to leave.

First off, I am not a "senior" flight attendant. I have been flying for a while but not like the senior ones with 20 plus years.

I voted NO on the concession package. I was against giving up the furlough pay. I am all for giving the furloughees 10 year recall rights.

Your attitude needs some serious adjusting! If you're so bent out of shape, GET INVOLVED! Why didn't you submit your name for Ad-Hoc? I didn't because it's a position I'm not interested in. I'm a contract/scheduling rep and an ADR Rep. That's what I enjoy doing.

Jim, you talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Instead of b*tc**ng about things, get up and do something! You're based in SLT, get invoved on a base level. Sign up for the next contract and scheduling class. Go out to the APFA Convention at our long LAX layover and voice your opinion.

This is a great job, it just needs to get back on track! It needs flight attendants who have b*lls to stand up and say what's on their minds. It needs flight attendants who want to get involved and fight to make it better.

You complain about SW and Frontier flight attendants being allowed to JS and sit in coach for free. This is the start of something all of us have been wanting for years. Now we have it and you're still complaining about it . You do get to fly for free in coach under 5 years. Use your brain and get the JS and then take any open seat. Remember the rules changed for the JS. Take it and sit in any cabin for free just like the pilots. List for the flight and when you get to the airport, tell the agent you want the JS. Wait until the end to board and advise the #1 you're JS. Most flight attendants will let you sit in First and if its not open take a free coach seat.

Jim, GET INVOLVED instead of b*tc**ing about it!

 

[mjk]

You're a scheduling rep?
Are you as unprofessional there as you are here?

At least you finally got rid of that USC logo.

 

[B.O.B.]

You're a scheduling rep?
Are you as unprofessional there as you are here?

At least you finally got rid of that USC logo.

I am not unprofessional! If someone wants to b**ch and complain, they should get involved. jimntx, just complains all the time about the same crap. If he doesn't like it, do something about it. Don't b**ch and hide behind the computer.

I go to battle when a flight attendant needs help or has questions. I educate them on the contract and scheduling issues.

BTW...You can ditch the Spurs chick and trophy. They didn't win last year and they are not going to win this year!

 

[AC AA LA FA]

I am not unprofessional! If someone wants to b**ch and complain, they should get involved. jimntx, just complains all the time about the same crap. If he doesn't like it, do something about it. Don't b**ch and hide behind the computer.

I go to battle when a flight attendant needs help or has questions. I educate them on the contract and scheduling issues.

BTW...You can ditch the Spurs chick and trophy. They didn't win last year and they are not going to win this year!

I see NOTHING unprofessional about this post?Am I missing something?
Its a breath of fresh air to hear it said that there sure are alot of whiners and APFA-haters...yet nobody steps up to the plate-they just like to whine.......
Its pathetic and I am OVER hearing from all these genious minds who think they can do better....
these always room at the inn...what you waiting for?

 

[jimntx]

Jim, GET INVOLVED instead of b*tc**ing about it!

First off, I'm not the one with the electronic foul-mouth who doesn't know how to type a single sentence without a profanity in it.

Second off, I was very involved when I was based at DFW. Many months, the monthly base meeting was attended by the base chair, the base vice-chair, my classmate and I who both had less than 2 years. That's with almost 4000 f/as in the base at the time. Don't lecture me about getting involved.

I've tried several times since being recalled to get involved and/or get the AApfa get involved in issues important to junior flight attendants. Like I said, if you weren't here for the glorious strike of '93, you don't count.

The AApfa is less than useless as far as I am concerned. Useless Boulevard is the perfect address for the headquarters.

 

[B.O.B.]

First off, I'm not the one with the electronic foul-mouth who doesn't know how to type a single sentence without a profanity in it.

Second off, I was very involved when I was based at DFW. Many months, the monthly base meeting was attended by the base chair, the base vice-chair, my classmate and I who both had less than 2 years. That's with almost 4000 f/as in the base at the time. Don't lecture me about getting involved.

I've tried several times since being recalled to get involved and/or get the AApfa get involved in issues important to junior flight attendants. Like I said, if you weren't here for the glorious strike of '93, you don't count.

The AApfa is less than useless as far as I am concerned. Useless Boulevard is the perfect address for the headquarters.

Do you need a tissue for the tears?

It's hard to get involved at SLT when you have 2 former TWA f/a's as your Chair and Vice Chair. Then get involved at the union. Call the National Contract or Scheduling Coordinators and sign up for the next class. It's a great class and you will learn even more then you already know.

If you want to get involved, call me and I will lead you in the right direction. But, if you decide not to...quit your complaining! Complaining doesn't do anything! Getting involved does!!

You can always mutual to ORD, DFW or put a proffer in for INTL' and get out of SLT!

BTW... I was here for the 93' strike. I was going into my second year at the time.

 

[jimntx]

Do you need a tissue for the tears?

You can always mutual to ORD, DFW or put a proffer in for INTL' and get out of SLT!

BTW... I was here for the 93' strike. I was going into my second year at the time.

Well, then, you are a real flight attendant, aren't you? None of you were on the picket line long enough to exchange recipes.

Obviously, you don't know very much about the transfer lists based on your statement about mutual transfers to ORD or DFW OR an International proffer. I'm above #200 on the DFW transfer list. If I were on the ORD list, I would be around #40 on the list. The last mutual at the end of January produced 4 transfers DFW-SLT, & 4 transfers ORD-SLT. I missed the last LAX-I proffer by only 14,000 numbers. I haven't seen a list for the IOR proffer yet, but when I saw a preliminary list, I was about #800 on a list for 100 positions. (I'd rather open a vein than transfer to JFK.)

Don't give the "tears" business, I'm not crying. I'm stating facts instead of making personal attacks on anyone who dares to disagree with me. But then that is the AApfa "professional" way of doing things.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

I am just as digusted with the whole the tamale as you are jimintx-I decided to become involved so that when I do complain, its been earned and I am validated in doing such. If I can do it,anyone can...sorry no sympathy here for professional victims of AA or APFA....

 

[LCC_#1]

I meant to add that the only difference between the JW group and the THB group is the names.

Perfect example of how much AApfa gives a flip about junior f/as...

Frontier and SWA f/as,regardless of seniority, can now fly free in coach on AA. Those of us who are AA f/as with less than 5 years still have to pay service charges for occupying a coach seat. I tried to get THB to address the issue. Her response was..."Well, after all it is company policy." End of discussion.

And, I don't want to hear the company argument that they are just trying to recoup some of their costs. How many employees do you think are left at AA that have less than 5 years? Outside of RES and Flight Service, I would be willing to bet not many. In fact, I would guess that out of approx. 70,000 active employees there are less than 2,000 of us in that category.

Wow, I never knew you guys had that policy. Stick it to the 5 year and under employees who make less while those on higher payscales pay nothing? Now thats uucked fp!!

 

[eolesen]

Wow, I never knew you guys had that policy. Stick it to the 5 year and under employees who make less while those on higher payscales pay nothing? Now thats uucked fp!!

Oh, yeah, it's all about sticking it to the junior employees....

I'm sure that it has nothing to do with people with five years or more having actually earned the privilege to pay nothing. Personally, I'd rather go back to sliding-scale travel privileges, i.e. junior employees have to wait for full benefits. If nothing else, it would make it a helluva lot easier to get on an aircraft as a D2...

 

[jimntx]

You complain about SW and Frontier flight attendants being allowed to JS and sit in coach for free. This is the start of something all of us have been wanting for years. Now we have it and you're still complaining about it . You do get to fly for free in coach under 5 years. Use your brain and get the JS and then take any open seat. Remember the rules changed for the JS. Take it and sit in any cabin for free just like the pilots. List for the flight and when you get to the airport, tell the agent you want the JS. Wait until the end to board and advise the #1 you're JS. Most flight attendants will let you sit in First and if its not open take a free coach seat.

Another brilliant post by a flight attendant who doesn't have to live or deal with the situation. Thanks for your insightful grasp of the obvious. One little fly in your ointment. The company let those of us under 5 years know that sitting in a cabin seat after being issued a js boarding pass would be considered theft of services. Recommending that one of us do that constitutes recommending that we do something that will get us fired. Thank you to the scheduling and contract "expert".