AMR profit predicted

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

I think you've confused the company with the international here, Hopeful... Nobody has faith in the company anymore, yet too many of you carrying a union card still seem to put your faith in them looking out for your best interests....

Mr. E, our so-called "faith" in the TWU is due only to the fact we haven't been able to rid ourselves of the SOBs - the process is quite long and drawn out. Some gents have taken the task of forming AMP in an attempt to rid American's Title 1 workers of the parasitic TWU. All that's needed is enough interest cards signed (enough to override the retired, fired, and dead signers that popped up a few years ago) for a vote to be held by the NMB to decide the direction of American's representation - but you already know that.

Re: confusing the company with the International - there's no confusion - the actions of both indicate they are one in the same.

 

[Rogallo]

Mr. E, our so-called "faith" in the TWU is due only to the fact we haven't been able to rid ourselves of the SOBs - the process is quite long and drawn out. Some gents have taken the task of forming AMP in an attempt to rid American's Title 1 workers of the parasitic TWU. All that's needed is enough interest cards signed (enough to override the retired, fired, and dead signers that popped up a few years ago) for a vote to be held by the NMB to decide the direction of American's representation - but you already know that.

Re: confusing the company with the International - there's no confusion - the actions of both indicate they are one in the same.

So how's the card count going? I can't wait to vote out the TWU.

 

[eolesen]

Gee, I thought the topic here was AA and airlines, not how employees at Al Bundy's shoe store or Jim Bob's House of Waffles get treated.

When you go into management, you know that you're going to live or die by your own merits. If you know your stuff and do your job, you'll stay employed. I've seen dozens of people in management who think it's OK to sit back on their "seniority" and let the young'uns do all the work. I guess in your world, that's acceptable. In mine, it's not. You either sh&t or get off the pot.

Apparently there was a RIF at HDQ again this week (nice Thanksgiving day present, eh?) and from the names I heard, there will be no loss of productivity whatsoever.

 

[Bob Owens]

Gee, I thought the topic here was AA and airlines, not how employees at Al Bundy's shoe store or Jim Bob's House of Waffles get treated.

When you go into management, you know that you're going to live or die by your own merits. If you know your stuff and do your job, you'll stay employed. I've seen dozens of people in management who think it's OK to sit back on their "seniority" and let the young'uns do all the work. I guess in your world, that's acceptable. In mine, it's not. You either sh&t or get off the pot.

Apparently there was a RIF at HDQ again this week (nice Thanksgiving day present, eh?) and from the names I heard, there will be no loss of productivity whatsoever.

How long ago did you leave?

 

[eolesen]

Not long enough to forget the basics, Bob. But we're not discussing me. We're how union, non-union, and management employees are treated.

There's no doubt that some managers shouldn't be in the job, and treat their people like crap. That's what happens when you don't give raises for years at a time. The people who are capable leave, and get replaced by the people who can't, and eventually you wind up with guys like Carmine heading up an entire division of people who are less than capable. It's starting to happen in my old department as well. Some very capable people in the middle, but the bottom rung of managers isn't living up to the standard of the people they replaced.

Two of the analysts I used to work with retired last week, each with over 30 years of service. After 18 months of being talked down to and unreasonable deadlines/expectations, one of them finally had enough of that, and said so during their last staff meeting. Apparently, the manager in question took it so personal that someone would question their way of doing things, she cancelled the retirement gathering planned for that afternoon to recognize their years of service.

That's the wrong way to do things by any measure. And that's what happens when you're running an airline that loses money consistently. People are pissed off all the time, there's pressure from on high to fix it, and when you are coming up on your 11th consecutive November layoff in management, more and more people are at a breaking point with no end in sight.

I came to the conclusion about a year ago that AA has become more and more like Eastern. Many of the people with my present employer came from either Eastern or System One (most hired in the pre-Lorenzo days), and the ones I've spoken with who interact with people from AA pretty much agree.

Maybe it's time to stop fixing it, and to sell it or tank it.

 

[TWU informer]

"e" I once heard someone say "You Can't Fix Stupid"

More and More I witness that quote everyday.

 

[wirewinder]

I hardly doubt it, AA unions gave up significant amounts to keep AA out of BK. Unfortunatley, it isn't enough. AA doesn't have the means to keep up with its peers, and will now have to face signifigant challenges. Most all carriers large and small are outperforming AA, and the mentality of "we will buy you" is now " who will buy us " ... I would say, AA should be putting together a stragey much stronger than what it has today, b/c what is now, will land it in BK, Very Very fast.

GG37, you seem to weigh what you read and you appear at several places in these forums. I wonder if you notice that the other authors seem not to distinguish between revenue and profit when discussing company income. At the end of any good quarter where there might be $600 million unspent profit, it is reasonable for the CFO to choose to start leases on ten new jets, at $15million each, leaving $450million profit that can be distributed as stock dividends. The game is not to worry that the illusion of earning less than your peer airlines will have any detrimental effect, but to predispose of the funds before any other claims can be made of them. That lesson was taught by Carl Icahn when he came to raid us at TWA, and he made the comment that our balance sheet was "georgeous". The goal is to examine and track closely the "revenue" of the company, which is what every employee works to produce before thoughtless executives give away a chunk of the money and claim, "gee fellas, no profit this time, better luck next year." What other industry "gives away" its product or service? I can't recall a frequent cab rider miles program, or frequent bus rider, or frequent smoker and the free cigarettes, so why is it the norm in our industry to give away what many of us toil to produce every day. Just another slap in the face, in the name of "building brand loyalty", a practice that Southwest proved to be out of touch with the traveling public. The world values air travel, the U.S. taught everyone how to do it and yet as a nation, we no longer value the underpinnings of the industry so as to make it great. The rest of the world was begging at the door to let them build the subsystems and flight controls of our planes, because it is a high value-added industry. Build the best bicycles and stay poor. Build a reasonable jet and make a very nice living - high value added. Follow the money, but be prepared to leave the airline business, before the airline business leaves you. Walt

 

[Bob Owens]

Not long enough to forget the basics, Bob. But we're not discussing me. We're how union, non-union, and management employees are treated.

There's no doubt that some managers shouldn't be in the job, and treat their people like crap. That's what happens when you don't give raises for years at a time. The people who are capable leave, and get replaced by the people who can't, and eventually you wind up with guys like Carmine heading up an entire division of people who are less than capable. It's starting to happen in my old department as well. Some very capable people in the middle, but the bottom rung of managers isn't living up to the standard of the people they replaced.

Two of the analysts I used to work with retired last week, each with over 30 years of service. After 18 months of being talked down to and unreasonable deadlines/expectations, one of them finally had enough of that, and said so during their last staff meeting. Apparently, the manager in question took it so personal that someone would question their way of doing things, she cancelled the retirement gathering planned for that afternoon to recognize their years of service.

That's the wrong way to do things by any measure. And that's what happens when you're running an airline that loses money consistently. People are pissed off all the time, there's pressure from on high to fix it, and when you are coming up on your 11th consecutive November layoff in management, more and more people are at a breaking point with no end in sight.

I came to the conclusion about a year ago that AA has become more and more like Eastern. Many of the people with my present employer came from either Eastern or System One (most hired in the pre-Lorenzo days), and the ones I've spoken with who interact with people from AA pretty much agree.

Maybe it's time to stop fixing it, and to sell it or tank it.

In other words, "more concessions by us will not fix AA".

 

[eolesen]

In other words, "more concessions by us will not fix AA".

More like "concessions alone won't fix AA".

You guys are in denial, everyone is running out of patience, and while you and management are pre-occupied with throwing knives at each other, the other airlines are busy stealing customers like me.

When someone like me, who admittedly has an atypical allegiance to AA, is willing to give up my status on AA and go fly on DL or UA instead, there's a problem.

 

[jersey777]

More like "concessions alone won't fix AA".

You guys are in denial, everyone is running out of patience, and while you and management are pre-occupied with throwing knives at each other, the other airlines are busy stealing customers like me.

When someone like me, who admittedly has an atypical allegiance to AA, is willing to give up my status on AA and go fly on DL or UA instead, there's a problem.

You are most likely giving up your status on AA because other airlines are going where you want to go and when you want to go, while AA is still sitting on its hands and the "talent" of this organization can't figure out how to acquire new planes or where to expand. It is not that they are preoccupied with labor, they haven't had negotiations with any work group in months.

 

[Bob Owens]

More like "concessions alone won't fix AA".

You guys are in denial, everyone is running out of patience, and while you and management are pre-occupied with throwing knives at each other, the other airlines are busy stealing customers like me.

When someone like me, who admittedly has an atypical allegiance to AA, is willing to give up my status on AA and go fly on DL or UA instead, there's a problem.

With flights the way they are you wont be missed. Just like you tell us, somebody else will fill your seat. I fly pretty much every week and all the flights I've been on for over a year are pretty much full. Labor is an essential component of the service and we have gone without for too long. We aim to get whats fair or maybe you need to look into AMTRAK or Greyhound.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

That's right, Bob- turn them away! Who needs high revenue passengers when the F cabin is full of non-revs and upgraders, right?

 

[Bob Owens]

That's right, Bob- turn them away! Who needs high revenue passengers when the F cabin is full of non-revs and upgraders, right?

Like I said I fly on average once a week. Despite the fact that I fly on a high level pass I rarely get F, so th means its either full of full payers or upgrades who basically pay for ir with the miles that the company sold them. Very few non-revs end up in F now-a-days.

 

[Hopeful]

That's right, Bob- turn them away! Who needs high revenue passengers when the F cabin is full of non-revs and upgraders, right?

And who needs happy employees making that F trip an enjoyable one guaranteeing a happy passenger and return business?