APFA Los Angeles Roadshow

[jersey777]

Yesterday was the first APFA roadshow in Los Angeles. Did anyone go and what was said?

 

[BigBangTheory]

I went to the APFA Roadshow yesterday at the Hilton in Los Angeles, while on a layover at our short hotel. It was pretty informative.

Just wanted to let you know that there were A LOT of f/a's there asking about OVL's and the VBR. Laura Glading said that she was hoping that enough people would take these options, and NO furloughs would be necessary. Let's hope so! By the looks of the interested people there yesterday from LAX, I think the mitigation will be great!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I went to the APFA Roadshow yesterday at the Hilton in Los Angeles, while on a layover at our short hotel. It was pretty informative.

Just wanted to let you know that there were A LOT of f/a's there asking about OVL's and the VBR. Laura Glading said that she was hoping that enough people would take these options, and NO furloughs would be necessary. Let's hope so! By the looks of the interested people there yesterday from LAX, I think the mitigation will be great!

That's good news. I hope some people are able to take advantage of the offer and enjoy an earlier retirement than they otherwise would have. It's good to see Ms. Glading cooperating with management on something that will benefit her members, as opposed to stonewalling for its own sake.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Attended the SFO show today focus was VBR and OVL as well....
Meeting was fairly well attended..
Its Laura's belief that most if not all furloughs might be mitigated by the "bridge" and LOAs...

 

[butchord45]

Attended the SFO show today focus was VBR and OVL as well....
Meeting was fairly well attended..
Its Laura's belief that most if not all furloughs might be mitigated by the "bridge" and LOAs...

Could anyone who has gone to a roadshow please enlighten me.
Was there any mention as to what was discussed with the company for 3 weeks and why there was no relief?
Basically wondering what the company offered and what the union offered?
Just curious as to which side is asking for what and the reasonableness of either offer.

Thanks

Butch

 

[jimntx]

Butch, unless you know someone on the negotiating committee, I doubt seriously that you or any of us will ever know what was offered/discussed/refused behind closed doors.

Reason #1: If all of us knew how unreasonable the initial offers were on both sides, we would probably be appalled. But, that's the way negotiating is done. The union starts out asking for the moon, but eventually settles for a telescope so that you can look at the moon closer. The company starts out asking for the first born from each family to be given into company slavery, but eventually settles for the old maid aunt that none of us really like anyway.

Reason #2: (the important one) Some of the items that were outright rejected in an attempt to "provide immediate relief" may be viable offers for the long-term. Neither side wants something that might be a bargaining chip later lost due to public discussion of same.

For instance...
Now, this is pure, unadulterated hearsay, but...I heard from a fairly good source in DFW management that one of the things the company is going to insist on in any new contract is that if you want to call yourself a flight attendant, you have to fly. US Airways already requires that EVERY f/a fly a minimum of 40 hours/month in order to be a flight attendant for them. I don't know what the penalty is for dropping below that, but I think is something like losing travel benefits and/or bidding seniority. Now, of course, there are exceptions, such as medical/personal/educational leaves, but not this "I drop all my trips every month" business.

To others who believe it is a god-given right of every flight attendant to not fly except when you get bored or you like the crew or the layover, don't attack the messenger. I'm just telling you what I was told.

Reason #3: Neither side wants us to know (and with good reason) what was discussed and eventually rejected by mutual agreement. For every person who likes Point A from the contract; someone else is going to be unhappy because the union did not get B; or in order to get B, the union gave up C which was the pet contractual perk of someone else. But, that's why it's called negotiating.

 

[butchord45]

That is all fine and good and I understand the principles behind negotiating.

What I am looking for is accountability. Noone knows what happened with the vote 2 administrations ago. The ones that do aren't telling.

Last administration had coffee for 4 years. Had a chance for early openers, declined them and sat around to finish out their term and then promptly retired.

Now the new administration sits for 3 weeks and comes up with nothing. Now they can hang out, go on coffee clubs.................errrrrr...........road shows and speculate on who may or may not retire, inform us on what the furlough process is blah blah blah.

I want some accountability, some reason to believe that the people we elected are at least trying. If the company came out and offered something pathetic where is the harm in telling your membership that??

If the union came out and asked for something completely crazy, as opposed to what was termed some immediate relief for the flight attendat work force. I want to know that too. Is that too much to ask.

If that is too much to ask.....where is the results of the survey we filled out stating what we want??

Or is that TOP SECRET as well???

I am afraid......this thing will be dragged out for 4 more years.........4 years of high salaries for our officers .....no relief for the f/as.........while the two negotiating parties sit around waiting for oil to drop and the economy to come around and then their term ends they retire and back we are to square one.

Butch (frustrated yes)

 

[jimntx]

That is all fine and good and I understand the principles behind negotiating.

What I am looking for is accountability. Noone knows what happened with the vote 2 administrations ago. The ones that do aren't telling.

Last administration had coffee for 4 years. Had a chance for early openers, declined them and sat around to finish out their term and then promptly retired.

And, this surprises you, why?


Now the new administration sits for 3 weeks and comes up with nothing. Now they can hang out, go on coffee clubs.................errrrrr...........road shows and speculate on who may or may not retire, inform us on what the furlough process is blah blah blah.

I want some accountability, some reason to believe that the people we elected are at least trying. If the company came out and offered something pathetic where is the harm in telling your membership that??

And, I wanted a pony for Christmas at one time, but I didn't get that either. Boy, you mus' be one them junejer flight attendants who's always tryin' to stir up trouble like that thar jimntx. Yore job is to pay yer dues and keep yer mouth shut. When yore senior you'll understand.

If the union came out and asked for something completely crazy, as opposed to what was termed some immediate relief for the flight attendat work force. I want to know that too. Is that too much to ask.

Uh, yes...
If that is too much to ask.....where is the results of the survey we filled out stating what we want??

Surely you jest! I find that level naivete refreshing in someone your age.

I am afraid......this thing will be dragged out for 4 more years.........4 years of high salaries for our officers .....no relief for the f/as.........while the two negotiating parties sit around waiting for oil to drop and the economy to come around and then their term ends they retire and back we are to square one.

I think he's got it. By George, he's got it. (on the downbeat)The Rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain.

Butch (frustrated yes)

 

[AAStew]

As I said in another thread, dragging out the negotiations for four years can only be a GOOD thing. With the economy the way it is now, you will only lose. Remember once you give something up, you will never see it again. So take it from me, no contract right now is good. (new)

 

[jimntx]

If anyone attends one of the roadshows and asks specific questions, please post here along with the answer you were given. Then the rest of us can ask same/similar questions when the roadshow comes to our base, and we can all compare the answers we got. Consistency has not been the strong suit of the APFA in the past.

For instance, someone who posts here was told by an officer of the APFA that people subject to furlough are not eligible for the VBR. According to the company, if someone subject to furlough is at least 50 years old and has 15 years company seniority, they ARE eligible for the VBR. And, the company is controlling the award of VBRs.

 

[nbmcg01]

That's good news. I hope some people are able to take advantage of the offer and enjoy an earlier retirement than they otherwise would have. It's good to see Ms. Glading cooperating with management on something that will benefit her members, as opposed to stonewalling for its own sake.

You have it wrong...Ms. Gladding is suggesting many ways to benefit her membership. It is hte Company that chooses to stonewall.

 

[FA Mikey]

That is all fine and good and I understand the principles behind negotiating.

What I am looking for is accountability. Noone knows what happened with the vote 2 administrations ago. The ones that do aren't telling.

Last administration had coffee for 4 years. Had a chance for early openers, declined them and sat around to finish out their term and then promptly retired.

In all fairness Tommie made that clear from the beginning. Her goal was also to encourage the next generation to get and be involved. The brain trust, the people who have negotiated the past contracts are leaving quickly. The have with them the understanding and the intent of the language in the contract and what youneed to argue and point or a grievance.

Now the new administration sits for 3 weeks and comes up with nothing. Now they can hang out, go on coffee clubs.................errrrrr...........road shows and speculate on who may or may not retire, inform us on what the furlough process is blah blah blah.

Like you I hopped to see something. But clearly what was on the table or where AA would go was clearly unacceptable.

I want some accountability, some reason to believe that the people we elected are at least trying. If the company came out and offered something pathetic where is the harm in telling your membership that??

It may seem easy to say they should just show us. But the union cannot negotiate with individuals. Whether the company offered anything or just asked for changes. When they show something not up for a vote they run the risk of the rumors of they wanted to get this and give up that, they didnt take it because its too beneficial to the junior/senior/twa/naatives. It begins to create a wedge and divisiveness. Thats also why you dont see much during regular negotiations.

I am afraid......this thing will be dragged out for 4 more years.........4 years of high salaries for our officers .....no relief for the f/as.........while the two negotiating parties sit around waiting for oil to drop and the economy to come around and then their term ends they retire and back we are to square one.

Butch (frustrated yes)

Frustrated, we are all in that club. I am not sure about the high salaries, if that was so good we would see more people in line for the job. Between the hours and the BS, Let me tell you it suck pure and simple.

 

[butchord45]

In all fairness Tommie made that clear from the beginning. Her goal was also to encourage the next generation to get and be involved. The brain trust, the people who have negotiated the past contracts are leaving quickly. The have with them the understanding and the intent of the language in the contract and what youneed to argue and point or a grievance.
Like you I hopped to see something. But clearly what was on the table or where AA would go was clearly unacceptable.
It may seem easy to say they should just show us. But the union cannot negotiate with individuals. Whether the company offered anything or just asked for changes. When they show something not up for a vote they run the risk of the rumors of they wanted to get this and give up that, they didnt take it because its too beneficial to the junior/senior/twa/naatives. It begins to create a wedge and divisiveness. Thats also why you dont see much during regular negotiations.


Frustrated, we are all in that club. I am not sure about the high salaries, if that was so good we would see more people in line for the job. Between the hours and the BS, Let me tell you it suck pure and simple.

In all fairness to Tommie????? Wait so it's ok for her to sit around and not try. If that's the case......resign your post let the vice president take over and get the hell out.

Well if where AA was going was clearly unacceptable than tell us that what is the big deal. If they are clearly not intent on negotiating let the membership know that.
Where is the big secret?? AA put out whole bunch of info about our jobs on the aanegotiations website.

A roadshow to explain retirement options??? There are retirement seminars all the time addressing those issues.
Everything else is on JETNET. If you need the info read it Oh wait the only thing most f/as read have nice glossy pictures.

 

[FA Mikey]

In all fairness to Tommie????? Wait so it's ok for her to sit around and not try. If that's the case......resign your post let the vice president take over and get the hell out.

What is it you are demanding she try to do? What is it she didnt try?

Well if where AA was going was clearly unacceptable than tell us that what is the big deal. If they are clearly not intent on negotiating let the membership know that.
Where is the big secret?? AA put out whole bunch of info about our jobs on the aanegotiations website.

For one thing it may lead AA to try to use that point as the beginning of negotiations for our next CBA. They could argue that this is where we left off in bargaining, and want us to start off from there. Think they wont try crap like that? Then you missed the arbitration for the contract after the strike. If it was unacceptable and the committee we we elected and the people who were appointed felt it was so, it was never going to go the adhoc and the board and on to the membership. Does it really matter how unacceptable it was? Do you really want to listen to the galley BS for the next 6 months to several years about how this or that flight attendant would have done it, strong armed AA and brought a glorious deal?

A roadshow to explain retirement options??? There are retirement seminars all the time addressing those issues.
Everything else is on JETNET. If you need the info read it Oh wait the only thing most f/as read have nice glossy pictures.

My guess the road show and space was already paid for or, they are using it as a way to get more members involved and part of whats going on. How many people keep up,listen to the hot line or call for specific information VS galley gossip?

 

[youbetcha]

In all fairness to Tommie????? Wait so it's ok for her to sit around and not try. If that's the case......resign your post let the vice president take over and get the hell out.

Well if where AA was going was clearly unacceptable than tell us that what is the big deal. If they are clearly not intent on negotiating let the membership know that.
Where is the big secret?? AA put out whole bunch of info about our jobs on the aanegotiations website.

A roadshow to explain retirement options??? There are retirement seminars all the time addressing those issues.
Everything else is on JETNET. If you need the info read it Oh wait the only thing most f/as read have nice glossy pictures.

The easiest solution to Butch's questions would be if he attended the Road Show in ORD yesterday. There was plenty of notice to bid around it, TT, whatever. If it means so much to you then did you show up?

As for Tommie not opening early, just what did APA and TWU get for opening early? They are in the exact same position that we are in but they spent a few million to get there. Kudos to Tommie for not wasting the membership's money.

As for the high pay, get a grip. I think the president gets the highest pay at 110 International rates of pay, including purser pay. That's a pretty strong incentive to protect our paychecks, don't you think? If we take a pay cut then they take the same paycut. YOu can't get more democratic than that.

From what I have heard from the Road Shows, there was a full blown presentation on what we went in with, what the surveys stated, what AA was not prepared to do, prepared being the key word, what the economice climate it, BK discussions, retirement, furloughs, bridge, PVDs, reserve, lobbying, coalitions, legislation, and on and on. Then, they went on to audience participation with Q and A.

Instead of trashing everyone for not meeting your expectations while you sit on your bum, SHOW UP. We don't pay enough dues each month for you to be spoon fed. You have an obligation to everyone else to get yourself educated and ask the questions you want and listen to and/or debate the answer.

From your posts, it is obvious that you don't take the time to get educated and just perpetuate galley gossip and the poor, poor me syndrome. Buck up. This is the real world.