APFA Los Angeles Roadshow

[Skymess]

The easiest solution to Butch's questions would be if he attended the Road Show in ORD yesterday. There was plenty of notice to bid around it, TT, whatever. If it means so much to you then did you show up?

As for Tommie not opening early, just what did APA and TWU get for opening early? They are in the exact same position that we are in but they spent a few million to get there. Kudos to Tommie for not wasting the membership's money.

As for the high pay, get a grip. I think the president gets the highest pay at 110 International rates of pay, including purser pay. That's a pretty strong incentive to protect our paychecks, don't you think? If we take a pay cut then they take the same paycut. YOu can't get more democratic than that.

From what I have heard from the Road Shows, there was a full blown presentation on what we went in with, what the surveys stated, what AA was not prepared to do, prepared being the key word, what the economice climate it, BK discussions, retirement, furloughs, bridge, PVDs, reserve, lobbying, coalitions, legislation, and on and on. Then, they went on to audience participation with Q and A.

Instead of trashing everyone for not meeting your expectations while you sit on your bum, SHOW UP. We don't pay enough dues each month for you to be spoon fed. You have an obligation to everyone else to get yourself educated and ask the questions you want and listen to and/or debate the answer.

From your posts, it is obvious that you don't take the time to get educated and just perpetuate galley gossip and the poor, poor me syndrome. Buck up. This is the real world.

Oh yes, so easy for junior people to bid off and SHOW UP. So easy to drop GARBAGE.

We know all about the economic environment, we're living it. If the union wants to do something proactive, or wanted to do something, they could answer questions that people write online to them and post the answers on the APFA web site. They could also post the meat of what they are going over at the road shows on the web site. They have to know attending is not going to be a possibility for a lot of people.

I looked at the road shows and NONE of them coincide with my schedule. I'm lucky to have what I have on the date I have it and I'm not about to change my trips around for other lower time stuff so I can go to a roadshow and listen to someone blow smoke up my a** about our economic environment and what they dream they are going to negotiate for me. My priorities right involve money and figuring out how not to hemhorage it.

 

[Skymess]

(Edited by Moderator. Please do not quote entire (lengthy) posts when responding immediately below the original post. Thanks)
(Moderators note: After this quote was edited out, the original poster requested that the original post be deleted.)

Thanks for the great info.

1. They ARE asking the company to merge divisions. Thought that was interesting. I would have asked for that too if the price was right. It obviously wasn't.

2. Interesting that the OL's will be system wide. They have always been by base seniority before. Now they will shift flying to accommodate the leave. That is GREAT news for junior people. I am now fully optimistic there won't be fulroughs now.

3. Anyone thinking about retiring before 65 should remember their pension is severely diminished if we go to bankruptcy.

 

[jimntx]

3. Anyone thinking about retiring before 65 should remember their pension is severely diminished if we go to bankruptcy.

Well, yes and no. Remember, the only way the company could change the plans is to dump them on the PBGC. Rules for the PBGC are that pensions are paid in proportion to the amount they were already funded.

1. Our pensions are currently 95% funded. I doubt that the PBGC would have any problem petitioning the bk court for a prior claim (ahead of other claimants) for the other 5%.
2. Assuming full funding, the PBGC pays the pension according to the way the dumped plans rules say, up to $45,000/yr (IIRC).
3. Most f/as would receive their full pension because most of us would not qualify for a pension anywhere near $45,000/yr. However, pilots would be hurt severely by that limitation.
4. Once you are on the pension rolls, I don't think your pension amount can be reduced. I know it can be increased (pension plans are not supposed to make a "profit"; so, in good investment return years, they have to distribute the excess funds to the pension plan members); but, I don't think it can be reduced. I may be wrong (I know how unlikely and ridiculous that sounds, but it has happened once or twice in the past 60+ years).

 

[Veritas]

3. Anyone thinking about retiring before 65 should remember their pension is severely diminished if we go to bankruptcy.

In addition to what Jim wrote, you should take into consideration the cumulative monetary value of three to five additional years of payments from the pension plan, depending if one retires at age 62, when first eligible for unreduced pension benefits at AA, or takes advantage of the current incentive to retire at age 60 without a reduction in benefits.

How long will it take to make up for losing three to five years of pension benefits checks by waiting to retire at age 65 in order to collect a bigger monthly check? Then you need to factor the loss interest or investment earning potential of that extra money and the effects of inflation.

I guess that you need to consult an actuary to have it all figured out.

 

[BigBangTheory]

As of Friday, July 11, 2008, the West Regional Director of Flight Service has confirmed 68 flight attendants have put in for the VBR or Article 30 (Company has waived the 6 month notice). This is just out of the west region (LAX-SFO). If these numbers continue we may have no furloughs. I haven't heard about the other regions.

 

[jimntx]

I know that at the MOD desk in SLT there is a sign-up sheet for people looking for a partner for the partnership flying option. There were several names on it when I saw it yesterday.

 

[eolesen]

2. Assuming full funding, the PBGC pays the pension according to the way the dumped plans rules say, up to $45,000/yr (IIRC).

True up to the underlined part, Jim.

If the plan is fully funded at the time it is frozen, you can receive more than just the guarantee'd max per year. The guarantee only kicks in if your plan was underfunded at the time of assumption by PBGC (which will be the case with most of the other legacy plans).

Guarantees are typically based off an age 65 retirement, and not 60, 62, or whatever else might have been considered full retirement by the plan. There are some exceptions for airline plans, i.e. age 60 for pilots, so take the following with a grain of salt...

2008 max guarantee without a survivor option is $51K at 65, $40K at 62, and $23K at 55. If you want a 50% survivor option (all that's offered as far as I know), the max gets further reduced based on the age difference between the survivor and plan participant.

That's the biggest problem GM retirees are going to face if they have to restructure -- UAW allows you to retire after 30 years on the assembly line. If you started on the line at 20, you can be "fully retired" at age 50 as far as the union and company are concerned, but the PBGC guarantee would be adjusted for the otherwise early retirement age. $18K a year is a far cry from the $50K some retirees are currently getting.

 

[sprflyr123]

As of Friday, July 11, 2008, the West Regional Director of Flight Service has confirmed 68 flight attendants have put in for the VBR or Article 30 (Company has waived the 6 month notice). This is just out of the west region (LAX-SFO). If these numbers continue we may have no furloughs. I haven't heard about the other regions.

I hope this trend continues as I really would like to keep flying. In light of the gripes I may have with the company, I still do enjoy my job and do not want to start plotting a career change right now.

 

[frontline]

I hope this trend continues as I really would like to keep flying. In light of the gripes I may have with the company, I still do enjoy my job and do not want to start plotting a career change right now.

Agreed (though I'm ground based.) It's a shame to see anyone out of a job who isn't ready for that, so hopefully the VBRs will be enough.