April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

And that means nothing, 10 years doesn't make a "trend" Dan. You investor types should know that. We've had an aviation transportation system for almost 100 years. In the grand scheme of things no one can predict the future.

You guys love talk of Conditions and Restrictions, so here's what the Arbitration panel said by way of C&R's
B. Conditions and Restrictions
1. Neither the implementation of the Integrated System Seniority List ...shall cause, in and of itself, the displacement of any pilot from his or her current position.
2. No pilot on furlough on the effective date of the Integrated Seniority List may bump/displace an active pilot...

And this was to abide by the contracual terms called for and agreed upon by the east and west pilots along with the Company:
a. Preserve jobs
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations

DOH would not have preserved active jobs, would have been a windfall to the east to the detriment of the west, west pilots being downgraded as a result of the SLI would not have maintained pre-merger pay and standard of living for active pilots, west pilots being displaced and downgraded by east furloughs would not have maintained pre-merger status, and finally being downgraded and moved far down the combined seniority list would not have minimized detrimental changes to career expectations. the NIC successfully navigated all of these contractual obligations (that still exist today in the form of the TA) and DOH would have unquestionably violated these.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Four in a four is a trend, five if you want to include Southwest - Airtran.

If statistics mean anything you're probable going to get your clock cleaned again, Jamie.

It isn't over till it's over Dan. And the only "clocks" getting cleaned are the West. The judgments and the LAW does not favor their position and it never has. BTW, SWA-Airtran wasn't an arbitration, not that you would know. And all the "integrations" in the past only denigrate the profession if it means disregarding seniority.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You guys love talk of Conditions and Restrictions, so here's what the Arbitration panel said by way of C&R's
B. Conditions and Restrictions
1. Neither the implementation of the Integrated System Seniority List ...shall cause, in and of itself, the displacement of any pilot from his or her current position.
2. No pilot on furlough on the effective date of the Integrated Seniority List may bump/displace an active pilot...

And this was to abide by the contracual terms called for and agreed upon by the east and west pilots along with the Company:
a. Preserve jobs
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations

DOH would not have preserved active jobs, would have been a windfall to the east to the detriment of the west, west pilots being downgraded as a result of the SLI would not have maintained pre-merger pay and standard of living for active pilots, west pilots being displaced and downgraded by east furloughs would not have maintained pre-merger status, and finally being downgraded and moved far down the combined seniority list would not have minimized detrimental changes to career expectations. the NIC successfully navigated all of these contractual obligations (that still exist today in the form of the TA) and DOH would have unquestionably violated these.

Not according the Supreme Court. You can argue this until the cows come home and you'll still lose. And BTW those are not the only "terms" the company can use to measure. Ford v. Huffman, placing Blacks at the bottom of a list, (discriminatory), taking bribes or "punishing" one group over another (bad faith) and TOTALLY DISREGARDING LENGTH OF SERVICE as a means to avoid paying HIGHER pay scales to those with MORE LENGTH OF SERVICE then someone with LESS (ARBITRARY), avoiding LOS in a "victor gets the spoils" scenario of placing low time pilots at AWA above those with years of service much greater (which is in any case an unenforceable contract provision under ALPA with both pilot groups having veto power). In short, ALPA and US Airways negotiated and unenforceable contract provision and the Appeals Court even said it. NEGOTIATE. And that is the legal basis upon which YOU LOSE.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You guys love talk of Conditions and Restrictions, so here's what the Arbitration panel said by way of C&R's
B. Conditions and Restrictions
1. Neither the implementation of the Integrated System Seniority List ...shall cause, in and of itself, the displacement of any pilot from his or her current position.
2. No pilot on furlough on the effective date of the Integrated Seniority List may bump/displace an active pilot...

And this was to abide by the contracual terms called for and agreed upon by the east and west pilots along with the Company:
a. Preserve jobs
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations

DOH would not have preserved active jobs, would have been a windfall to the east to the detriment of the west, west pilots being downgraded as a result of the SLI would not have maintained pre-merger pay and standard of living for active pilots, west pilots being displaced and downgraded by east furloughs would not have maintained pre-merger status, and finally being downgraded and moved far down the combined seniority list would not have minimized detrimental changes to career expectations. the NIC successfully navigated all of these contractual obligations (that still exist today in the form of the TA) and DOH would have unquestionably violated these.

Oh and another thing: NO FURLOUGHED EAST PILOT EVER BUMPED A WEST PILOT...NEVER....FROM THEIR CURRENT POSITION. THE COMPANY FURLOUGHED THE WEST PILOTS, AND THATS A FACT! The East NEVER DID THAT. If so, the company provided the very path with which they now filed a motion to dismiss: SYSTEM BOARD. And that ship has long since sailed. GOOD LUCK AND SYIC. Say hi to your Dad. Maybe you can get him to take the case instead of Silver.

 

[traderjake]

It isn't over till it's over Dan. And the only "clocks" getting cleaned are the West.

Five addition years of LOA 93, still no DOH seniority list and none in sight.

You're a winner alright.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Oh and another thing: NO FURLOUGHED EAST PILOT EVER BUMPED A WEST PILOT...NEVER....FROM THEIR CURRENT POSITION. THE COMPANY FURLOUGHED THE WEST PILOTS, AND THATS A FACT! The East NEVER DID THAT. If so, the company provided the very path with which they now filed a motion to dismiss: SYSTEM BOARD. And that ship has long since sailed. GOOD LUCK AND SYIC. Say hi to your Dad. Maybe you can get him to take the case instead of Silver.

The integrated list hasn't been implemented yet so any west furlough are obviously not the result the pilots being integrated by the NIC.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The integrated list hasn't been implemented yet so any west furlough are obviously not the result the pilots being integrated by the NIC.

That's right. And had we had an integrated list under DOH with conditions and restrictions that would'nt have happened either. Even Doug himself stated that DOH would have to respect the bump and flush provisions and there was NEVER any objection to that. Did I mention also that Doug himself ALSO stated that because of the second BK and the negotiation and implementation of LOA 93 that ONLY THEN POSSIBLE for US Airways and AWA to merge because, IN FACT, we drove our salaries LOWER than industry which then made us HIGHLY COMPETATIVE with the other airlines and consequently made it logical for the two of our carriers to M-E-R-G-E. Also, show me exactly WHERE AWA was growing and hiring. Show where AWA was MAKING MONEY at the time of the merger. You can find those answers at www.sec.gov. George Nicolau's "decision" was not only faulty, it was highly discriminatory and "ARBITRARY" to ANY LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE. That WILL come out in your Dad's district. Maybe he'll learn something about labor law. Hey, how come you didn't follow in your Dad's footsteps, seeing as you like law and all?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Five addition years of LOA 93, still no DOH seniority list and none in sight.

You're a winner alright.

Dude, you're swimming in the same pond. If you don't like it, QUIT!

 

[Phoenix]

Dude, you're swimming in the same pond. If you don't like it, QUIT!

Why would he quit. His seniority is too valuable to do that.

 

[CallawayGolf]

That's right. And had we had an integrated list under DOH with conditions and restrictions that would'nt have happened either. Even Doug himself stated that DOH would have to respect the bump and flush provisions and there was NEVER any objection to that. Did I mention also that Doug himself ALSO stated that because of the second BK and the negotiation and implementation of LOA 93 that ONLY THEN POSSIBLE for US Airways and AWA to merge because, IN FACT, we drove our salaries LOWER than industry which then made us HIGHLY COMPETATIVE with the other airlines and consequently made it logical for the two of our carriers to M-E-R-G-E. Also, show me exactly WHERE AWA was growing and hiring. Show where AWA was MAKING MONEY at the time of the merger. You can find those answers at www.sec.gov. George Nicolau's "decision" was not only faulty, it was highly discriminatory and "ARBITRARY" to ANY LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE. That WILL come out in your Dad's district. Maybe he'll learn something about labor law. Hey, how come you didn't follow in your Dad's footsteps, seeing as you like law and all?

I don't recall making a statement about AWA hires or AWH profitability. Of course isn't the east mantra "placing a new hire above a guy with 17-years of service'?

My dad's district? He's been dead for 30-years.

You clearly have me confused with someone else.

 

[traderjake]

Dude, you're swimming in the same pond. If you don't like it, QUIT!

Not for long, bye bye USAPA.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Not for long, bye bye USAPA.

And bye bye Nicolau Award.

 

[traderjake]

Why would he quit. His seniority is too valuable to do that.

or better yet I could sit on the couch out on a Medical.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I don't recall making a statement about AWA hires or AWH profitability. Of course isn't the east mantra "placing a new hire above a guy with 17-years of service'?

My dad's district? He's been dead for 30-years.

You clearly have me confused with someone else.

Maybe YOU haven't made the statement but the majority (there's that word, again) of your brethren seem to think they had "bright" futures at AWA without a merger. If you haven't made the statement, surely you can illuminate your side of the Mississippi with this inconvenient truth. Because if and when USAPA does have to justify this so called "legitimate union purpose" I'm sure that when all is said and done the proof will overwhelmingly favor USAPA's position. Of course, according to Dave he and his righteous AwFOL will continue to rack up legal fees and eventually leave Jacob's and Harper with a huge bill....which still needs to be paid off. Also, Jacobs and Harper can't quit now for lack of payment for to do so leaves them open to a malpractice claim. That will occur in any event when AwFOL fails in its duty to "defend" your so called rights. SYIC.

 

[end_of_alpa]

or better yet I could sit on the couch out on a Medical.

So.....who is smarter?