April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

And we brought THE EAST COAST, wide-bodies and ATTRITION that inures ONLY WITH THE EAST, all of which Parker & Kirby BOTH explain that without the merger, there is nothing for you but BK which was weeks away for AWA and THEN having to try to raise whatever capital they could on the open market to keep the doors open at stand alone AWA. Parker and Kirby were bucking to keep their jobs too, pal. Those are the facts, and they will be heard in court.

The facts were USAirways in 2005 was weeks away from.iquidation.

Parker did not spouting off about a possible bankruptcy for AWA until 2008.

Big difference between definite liquidation and a possible BK filing 3 years after the merger date.

 

[Phoenix]

So.....who is smarter?

It appears he thinks he is smart enough to insult me. I am thankful to be healthy enough that I still have to go turn a wheel to get paid and if there is anyone out on a medical my thoughts and prayers are that they will recover.

 

[Pi brat]

The facts were USAirways in 2005 was weeks away from.iquidation.

Parker did not spouting off about a possible bankruptcy for AWA until 2008.

Big difference between definite liquidation and a possible BK filing 3 years after the merger date.

And when did it liquidate?

 

[EastUS1]

cleardirect, on 17 April 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:
Big difference between definite liquidation....

And when did it liquidate?

Just shortly after "the germans bombed Pearl Harbor!" Leave him be...he's rolling. 🙂 Actual reality is of no concern here! "Expectations", as it turns out, are the only things that truly matter in this world of ours! 😉

While we're romping around Fantasyland: This just in! An operative has returned with secret recon footage of AOL's dreaded "Dire Wolf" Squadron training for a surprise attack! All forces should immediately be placed on alert!

https://www.youtube....h?v=ng4qc2NLa_E

 

[end_of_alpa]

The facts were USAirways in 2005 was weeks away from.iquidation.

Parker did not spouting off about a possible bankruptcy for AWA until 2008.

Big difference between definite liquidation and a possible BK filing 3 years after the merger date.

You are WRONG Sir. I have THE document in my hand. Read the transcript, which I transcribed and wrote about on Sunday, August 13, 2006. I am attaching (for the twenty thousandth time) what Parker said on 20 July 2006, only 9 months into the merger announcement from 2005. AWA was one third the size of US Airways, ONLY IN PHX (and some in LVS) increasing fuel prices and limited revenue. I have several other transcripts saying the same. Even Parker said: "anyone that says otherwise or tells you otherwise needs to ask me!" Parkers BIGGEST concern was that AWA going into BK carried the VERY GREAT RISK of NOT getting exit financing for a stand alone AWA which, with US Airways and Lakefield's connections they were able to obtain that very same DIP financing necessary to keep BOTH AIRLINES AFLOAT....TOGETHER. Read my transcript back to me and tell me Doug, Scott or myself are liars, because sometimes the truth hurts

 

[end_of_alpa]

It appears he thinks he is smart enough to insult me. I am thankful to be healthy enough that I still have to go turn a wheel to get paid and if there is anyone out on a medical my thoughts and prayers are that they will recover.

Be well, my friend and.....STAY THIRSTY!

 

[end_of_alpa]

The facts were USAirways in 2005 was weeks away from.iquidation.

Parker did not spouting off about a possible bankruptcy for AWA until 2008.

Big difference between definite liquidation and a possible BK filing 3 years after the merger date.

Oh, and here is THE Flight Attendant transcript from 20 September 2011. So what IS the best AWA could have done on its own? Get the truth here: "So the merger helped both of us, and in a huge way. I don't think America West would have made it on its own. I'm certain US Airways wouldn't have." So when we DO get to court and we DO have to explain the "wide range of reasonableness" and why the pilots WOULD'NT VOTE for a JCBA with the Nicolau and why our position HAS a legitimate union purpose then well see. Oh, and the BURDEN OF PROOF rests with the Plaintiff, aka AwFOL..

 

[end_of_alpa]

Here is MORE of the truth of it....EVIDENCE!!
"But my view is, and a highly educated view on this point, is that America West would have been bankrupt by the end of 2005.
If you recall, by the end of 2005, Delta and Northwest both filed, and I don't think America West could have ‑‑ I'm pretty sure ‑‑ I'm actually, virtually certain that America West would have filed bankruptcy because we didn't have enough cash to make it through the winter in that environment.

So ‑‑ and then more importantly, as it relates to America West, the reason the merger was so important to America West is America West was an airline that lived off a cost structure advantage.
Much like I describe to US Airways employees now, how we don't have the same revenue generating capabilities as American, Delta, and United, who are bigger than us. America West had that in spades.

A Phoenix hub never had the ability to generate the kind of revenues US Airways did, for
example. But the airline survived 25 years by having much lower costs, and those lower costs almost entirely labor based.

So what had happened is, is you, you know, looking around the world, here at US Airways, for example, had gotten its labor costs through two bankruptcies and a lot of pain down to matching America West.

That did not look like a good formula for the America West ‑‑ for America West Airlines. You have an airline now that has, not the same ability to generate revenues, and the same costs as the guys who can generate a lot more revenues than you. Those airlines go away.

So whether or not America West would have filed, you know, in late 2005, like I believe, that airline, I'm certain, wouldn't have been able to stand alone on its own in today's environment. You know, much like Frontier, was very ‑‑ it's very similar I think to America West."
BTW, why do YOU think this guy is going to be the head of the New AMR???

 

[mrbreeze]

Not according to the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

We'll see what the next arbitration panel has to say.

Once again, BS flag on this one!
breeze

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You guys love talk of Conditions and Restrictions, so here's what the Arbitration panel said by way of C&R's
B. Conditions and Restrictions
1. Neither the implementation of the Integrated System Seniority List ...shall cause, in and of itself, the displacement of any pilot from his or her current position.
2. No pilot on furlough on the effective date of the Integrated Seniority List may bump/displace an active pilot...

And this was to abide by the contracual terms called for and agreed upon by the east and west pilots along with the Company:
a. Preserve jobs
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations

DOH would not have preserved active jobs, would have been a windfall to the east to the detriment of the west, west pilots being downgraded as a result of the SLI would not have maintained pre-merger pay and standard of living for active pilots, west pilots being displaced and downgraded by east furloughs would not have maintained pre-merger status, and finally being downgraded and moved far down the combined seniority list would not have minimized detrimental changes to career expectations. the NIC successfully navigated all of these contractual obligations (that still exist today in the form of the TA) and DOH would have unquestionably violated these.

On what assumptions are those PRE- CONCIEVED "NOTIONS" based do tell? You say PHX a viable hub , growth, etc, etc, so are you a hypocrite? Attrition is a career expectation is it not? Actually the ONLY ONE, A FINITE NUMBER, 65, and the age you have the min quals to get hired! When it turns in to a ratio let us know!

 

[traderjake]

Once again, BS flag on this one!

No BS, four pilot seniority arbitrations in a row, that' a fact.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

prechilill,

Just want to point out not to make too many comparisons just yet about the position of either the CAL or UAL merger committees. Each merger turns on it's own facts, and the bottom line is that the final ruling will be binding, and will probably not look exactly like either side's opening proposal, and the the CAL and UAL pilots will accept the ISL and move on when the dust settles.

That being said, there are some interesting observations to point out. First of all, the CAL attorney is the same one who represented the east pilots (and the NW pilots). He went from supporting straight DOH to now slotting captains with captains and f/os with f/os. Of course, he also has a responsibility to represent the will of his clients. Secondly, the CAL position clearly avoids reference to ALPA merger policy. They even go so far as to claim that their narrow body 757's should be considered wide body aircraft because they are ETOPS. (go figure.) True to form, he is trying to throw as much "you know what" against the wall, hoping some of it will stick.

IMO the UAL position as stated in their opening letter is far more comprehensive, factual, and not as over-reaching. The circumstances surrounding the CAL/UAL merger are far different from those surrounding AWA/USA. Time will tell, and the arbitrators' ruling and explanations will be quite an interesting read. I am making no predictions at this point. But I am comfortable with our position and representation. Stay tuned.

PS. One of my overriding concerns and interest in the AWA/USA SLI award was the effect it would have on the CAL/UAL merger through any precedent. The Nicolau award is already referenced by both sides. Ironically, it is now the UAL SLI award that may actually effect the AMR/USA SLI. Interesting times...

Well so much for my "brothers in arms, we can work this out position! Now it's UAL more comprehensive, yea right! LMFAO! No your circumstances aint no different! Well good for your position ! You are subject to ALPA merger policy an ever changeing doctrine, time to bail to your own independant union! MM! STUPID IS AS JETZ DOES!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just Curious since the merger now UAL is selling 757's to FEDEX will he be 737jetz or ABjet, MM! He will be junior to a CAL pilot flying a 737 10 years after hewas hired!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Remember documents during BK in court will support the CAL position , AWE showed them the way under "ALPA" when you get tired of the ALPA, and you will vote !

 

[mrbreeze]

GO NUGGETS!!!!