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April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Claxon said:
Hemingway wrote in short declarative sentences and despised men with no spine. Your Hemenway had the same thing in mind for the west pilots in his latest legal declaration.

http://leonidas.cact...emenwayDecl.pdf
Click to expand...
Claxon said:
Hemingway wrote in short declarative sentences and despised men with no spine. Your Hemenway had the same thing in mind for the west pilots in his latest legal declaration.

http://leonidas.cact...emenwayDecl.pdf
Click to expand...

I take it from Al's letter to Cleary there was no love lost
http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/Hemenway-To-Cleary:USAPA-Status-Quo-Violations.pdf
 
Pi brat said:
I say that this counters nic4us' claim that MB cannot be used to merge east and west as we agreed to do just that in the MOU. Is that what you are getting at?
Click to expand...
Okay thens let's use MB.....

Two choices...one, use something usapa specifically said was not part of the MOU, and try to combine the AMr list with a never used, never contractually mandated, found to be a DFR at trial list, supplied by usapa, and immediately challenged during the process,

Or,

use the Nic, which is/was contractually mandated, conforms to MB process, and gave the east the same rights they would have under AM 3 and 13.
 
Claxon said:
Is there anything in the letter accusing USAPA of illegal activities that you disagree with?
Click to expand...



Re: Status Quo Violations​
Dear Captain Cleary:​
Sent via certified mail, US mail and facsimile​
We recently learned of two campaigns aimed at persuading pilots to engage in concerted action to disrupt US Airways' operations, We demand that USAPA take immediate steps to stop this unlawful activity as required by the Railway Labor Act The first campaign seeks to persuade pilots not to finish their "Distance Learning" training module required​
by the FAA until the last day of the deadline (May 31 , 201 1 ), and Is being implemented through recorded calls and personal calls to pilots. As you know, If pilots collectively refuse to finish this training until the last day of the deadline, US Airways will be forced to cancel flights. The second campaign is under the guise of safety and seeks to persuade pilots collectively to, among other things, delay calling for taxi clearance, slow taxi aircraft, write up minor discrepancies, drop flights through the schedule adjustment process, and call in sick and/or fatigued. This campaign is being implemented through e-mails and telephone calls. As you know, if pilots collectively engage in this behavior, it will result in​
flight delays and/or cancellations. Under the Railway Labor Act, USAPA has a statutory obligation to do everything reasonably possible to prevent and discourage these unlawful job actions. US Airways demands that USAPA comply with its legal obligations and take Immediate steps to ensure that there are no disruptions to US Airways' operations.​
Sincerely,​
E. Allen Hemenway​
Vice President, Labor Relations

Do you feel any of these claims of disruptions if true, might cut into your profit sharing check?

Seems to me another shot in the foot, along with Cactus 18, False ID theft charges, fuel "skool", increased dues, LOA 93, no contract, etc.
 
snapthis said:
Re: Status Quo Violations​
Dear Captain Cleary:​
Sent via certified mail, US mail and facsimile​
We recently learned of two campaigns aimed at persuading pilots to engage in concerted action to disrupt US Airways' operations, We demand that USAPA take immediate steps to stop this unlawful activity as required by the Railway Labor Act The first campaign seeks to persuade pilots not to finish their "Distance Learning" training module required​
by the FAA until the last day of the deadline (May 31 , 201 1 ), and Is being implemented through recorded calls and personal calls to pilots. As you know, If pilots collectively refuse to finish this training until the last day of the deadline, US Airways will be forced to cancel flights. The second campaign is under the guise of safety and seeks to persuade pilots collectively to, among other things, delay calling for taxi clearance, slow taxi aircraft, write up minor discrepancies, drop flights through the schedule adjustment process, and call in sick and/or fatigued. This campaign is being implemented through e-mails and telephone calls. As you know, if pilots collectively engage in this behavior, it will result in​
flight delays and/or cancellations. Under the Railway Labor Act, USAPA has a statutory obligation to do everything reasonably possible to prevent and discourage these unlawful job actions. US Airways demands that USAPA comply with its legal obligations and take Immediate steps to ensure that there are no disruptions to US Airways' operations.​
Sincerely,​
E. Allen Hemenway​
Vice President, Labor Relations

Do you feel any of these claims of disruptions if true, might cut into your profit sharing check?

Seems to me another shot in the foot, along with Cactus 18, False ID theft charges, fuel "skool", increased dues, LOA 93, no contract, etc.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your need to support the company. Great follow up post.
 
A United Pilot's Thoughts:

http://www.airlinepi...y-sli-swag.html


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]This is meaningless and pure entertainment so nobody should get bent out of shape if they don't like my thoughts. Make your own guess and we'll have a pool to see who get's closest to guessing their number on the new ISL.[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]I begin with my summation of the relevant discussion in the US Air/Am West and DAL/NWA award.[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]US Air/Am West [/background]
  • US Air was going out of business so career expectations were almost nil.
  • Putting furloughees in with active pilots would be unfair to Am West junior pilots and subject them to risk of furlough.
  • US Air does bring large planes and foreign routes so they get credit for category and class ratios.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]DAL/NWA[/background]
  • Career expectations were mostly the same.
  • NWA did have 747 which is coveted by pilots.
  • NWA was set to lose older pilots faster than DAL.
  • No evidence that NWA was "right sized" for merger so no furloughee credit.
  • WB/NB ratio similar.

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]then a summary of the actual award:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]US Air[/background]
  • ratios like 2:1 for WB then 1:1 for NB
  • top couple hundred US Air guys go on top because of A330
  • only "active" pilots in the list
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]DAL/NWA[/background]
  • "pull and plug" gave "super seniority" to those expecting a 400 bid in the near future.
  • ratio distribution based on WB/NB gave slight boost to NWA.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]Likely UAL/CAL logic based on history and ALPA policy:[/background]

  • UAL gets some pilots at the top for 747, then the first couple thousand pilots are mixed in a ratio around 2:1. Then the remaining pilots are mixed on an even ratio that represents the remaining numbers.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]BUT [/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]here's the kicker that I think will be different. I think the list will include some of the UAL furloughees, and here's my logic:[/background]


  • Looking at the 2 companies block hour ratios pre-merger it is plain to see that UAL represents a predominantly WB international network and CAL a predominantly NB national network, but together the synergies are enormous.
  • In 2010, DAL, AA, and CAL (the remaining legacy carriers) all had NB replacement and/or growth orders. Only UAL did not. Obviously UAL was counting on the CAL side to fulfill their future NB need, and that along with industry rationalization was why UAL 737 were removed with no replacement.
  • Unlike NWA, UAL did not dramatically increase RJ feeder flying or order 76 seaters prior to the merger.
  • Unlike NWA, UAL DID announce major alliance shifts to include coordinating NB feed with CAL prior to the merger.
  • Immediately following the merger CAL hired 1/3 of all UAL furloughees to staff their 737 fleet, and only about 40% of UAL furloughees are accepting recall and half of them are at CAL so the UAL pilots flying for CAL today represent half the number of pilots that can be expected to return.
  • Unlike US Air, UAL HAD the POTENTIAL to operate independently as their costs were among the lowest in the industry and their global network was second only to DAL post BK so furloughees had cause to expect future advancement.


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]SO . . . .[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]the list gets integrated as follows based on a ratio of 111 WB/359 versus 46 WB/335, approximately 400 747 pilots, and about 18 WB pilots per plane.[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]UAL 0 to 400 to 1800 to 6400 (5400 to 6400 are furloughees)[/background]
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]CAL 0 to 000 to 0850 to 4800[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]based on my current number of 4322 I end up at:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)](4322-1800)/(6400-1800)*(11200-2650)+2650=7352[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]and I match up with a CAL guy:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)](4322-1800)/(6400-1800)*(4800-850)+850 = 3022 [/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]so I'm a 4/1996 hire and I end up next to a 1/2001 hire and I'm 67% in L-UAL and I end up 66% in the ISL.[/background]




[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]so I predict my new seniority number will be 7352.[/background]



[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]The only guys that get "screwed" are the CAL guys hired after the fall of 2006 starting around number 3950 who are merged with the UAL furloughees, and before you say ALPA policy doesn't allow this it only says you can't leap frog someone on your own companies list so in this case UAL furloughees do not leap frog any UAL pilots, and the fact remains for CAL post '06 hires, their W2 stays the same, they don't get bumped, and have essentially the same career expectations as before, but the furloughees get some tiny credit for longevity and working for a predominantly WB company pre-merger.[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]Anyways, this is totally worthless as it has no bearing on anything and is merely an exercise in mental gymnastics that you can hate or love or whatever, but I had fun going thru the numbers.[/background]
 
prechilill said:
A United Pilot's Thoughts:

http://www.airlinepi...y-sli-swag.html


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]This is meaningless and pure entertainment so nobody should get bent out of shape if they don't like my thoughts. Make your own guess and we'll have a pool to see who get's closest to guessing their number on the new ISL.[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]I begin with my summation of the relevant discussion in the US Air/Am West and DAL/NWA award.[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]US Air/Am West [/background]
  • US Air was going out of business so career expectations were almost nil.
  • Putting furloughees in with active pilots would be unfair to Am West junior pilots and subject them to risk of furlough.
  • US Air does bring large planes and foreign routes so they get credit for category and class ratios.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]DAL/NWA[/background]
  • Career expectations were mostly the same.
  • NWA did have 747 which is coveted by pilots.
  • NWA was set to lose older pilots faster than DAL.
  • No evidence that NWA was "right sized" for merger so no furloughee credit.
  • WB/NB ratio similar.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]then a summary of the actual award:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]US Air[/background]
  • ratios like 2:1 for WB then 1:1 for NB
  • top couple hundred US Air guys go on top because of A330
  • only "active" pilots in the list
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]DAL/NWA[/background]
  • "pull and plug" gave "super seniority" to those expecting a 400 bid in the near future.
  • ratio distribution based on WB/NB gave slight boost to NWA.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]Likely UAL/CAL logic based on history and ALPA policy:[/background]

  • UAL gets some pilots at the top for 747, then the first couple thousand pilots are mixed in a ratio around 2:1. Then the remaining pilots are mixed on an even ratio that represents the remaining numbers.
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]BUT [/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]here's the kicker that I think will be different. I think the list will include some of the UAL furloughees, and here's my logic:[/background]


  • Looking at the 2 companies block hour ratios pre-merger it is plain to see that UAL represents a predominantly WB international network and CAL a predominantly NB national network, but together the synergies are enormous.
  • In 2010, DAL, AA, and CAL (the remaining legacy carriers) all had NB replacement and/or growth orders. Only UAL did not. Obviously UAL was counting on the CAL side to fulfill their future NB need, and that along with industry rationalization was why UAL 737 were removed with no replacement.
  • Unlike NWA, UAL did not dramatically increase RJ feeder flying or order 76 seaters prior to the merger.
  • Unlike NWA, UAL DID announce major alliance shifts to include coordinating NB feed with CAL prior to the merger.
  • Immediately following the merger CAL hired 1/3 of all UAL furloughees to staff their 737 fleet, and only about 40% of UAL furloughees are accepting recall and half of them are at CAL so the UAL pilots flying for CAL today represent half the number of pilots that can be expected to return.
  • Unlike US Air, UAL HAD the POTENTIAL to operate independently as their costs were among the lowest in the industry and their global network was second only to DAL post BK so furloughees had cause to expect future advancement.

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]SO . . . .[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]the list gets integrated as follows based on a ratio of 111 WB/359 versus 46 WB/335, approximately 400 747 pilots, and about 18 WB pilots per plane.[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]UAL 0 to 400 to 1800 to 6400 (5400 to 6400 are furloughees)[/background]
[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]CAL 0 to 000 to 0850 to 4800[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]based on my current number of 4322 I end up at:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)](4322-1800)/(6400-1800)*(11200-2650)+2650=7352[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]and I match up with a CAL guy:[/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)](4322-1800)/(6400-1800)*(4800-850)+850 = 3022 [/background]

[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]so I'm a 4/1996 hire and I end up next to a 1/2001 hire and I'm 67% in L-UAL and I end up 66% in the ISL.[/background]




[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]so I predict my new seniority number will be 7352.[/background]



[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]The only guys that get "screwed" are the CAL guys hired after the fall of 2006 starting around number 3950 who are merged with the UAL furloughees, and before you say ALPA policy doesn't allow this it only says you can't leap frog someone on your own companies list so in this case UAL furloughees do not leap frog any UAL pilots, and the fact remains for CAL post '06 hires, their W2 stays the same, they don't get bumped, and have essentially the same career expectations as before, but the furloughees get some tiny credit for longevity and working for a predominantly WB company pre-merger.[/background]


[background=rgb(245, 245, 255)]Anyways, this is totally worthless as it has no bearing on anything and is merely an exercise in mental gymnastics that you can hate or love or whatever, but I had fun going thru the numbers.[/background]
Click to expand...

Thank you for reminding some readers why alpa had their ever, loving, living ass kicked off the US Airways pilots property.

United pilots and Continental alpa pilots have the most picket crossing scabs of any airline times 10.

Gee, I hope no one asks me for a link to my accusations, I may not be able to provide names proof. Hold my feet to the coals if you desire, I must be held accountable.
 
snapthis said:
Re: Status Quo Violations​
Dear Captain Cleary:​
Sent via certified mail, US mail and facsimile​
We recently learned of two campaigns aimed at persuading pilots to engage in concerted action to disrupt US Airways' operations, We demand that USAPA take immediate steps to stop this unlawful activity as required by the Railway Labor Act The first campaign seeks to persuade pilots not to finish their "Distance Learning" training module required​
by the FAA until the last day of the deadline (May 31 , 201 1 ), and Is being implemented through recorded calls and personal calls to pilots. As you know, If pilots collectively refuse to finish this training until the last day of the deadline, US Airways will be forced to cancel flights. The second campaign is under the guise of safety and seeks to persuade pilots collectively to, among other things, delay calling for taxi clearance, slow taxi aircraft, write up minor discrepancies, drop flights through the schedule adjustment process, and call in sick and/or fatigued. This campaign is being implemented through e-mails and telephone calls. As you know, if pilots collectively engage in this behavior, it will result in​
flight delays and/or cancellations. Under the Railway Labor Act, USAPA has a statutory obligation to do everything reasonably possible to prevent and discourage these unlawful job actions. US Airways demands that USAPA comply with its legal obligations and take Immediate steps to ensure that there are no disruptions to US Airways' operations.​
Sincerely,​
E. Allen Hemenway​
Vice President, Labor Relations

Do you feel any of these claims of disruptions if true, might cut into your profit sharing check?

Seems to me another shot in the foot, along with Cactus 18, False ID theft charges, fuel "skool", increased dues, LOA 93, no contract, etc.
Click to expand...

They apparently were trying to get you a contract so you could have your NIC. At least they tried. Onward!
 
Claxon said:
Thank you for reminding some readers why alpa had their ever, loving, living ass kicked off the US Airways pilots property.
Click to expand...

Is that what that was? It was so freaking long and off topic I thought it was just spam. :lol:
 
nic4us said:
Okay thens let's use MB.....

Two choices...one, use something usapa specifically said was not part of the MOU, and try to combine the AMr list with a never used, never contractually mandated, found to be a DFR at trial list, supplied by usapa, and immediately challenged during the process,

Or,

use the Nic, which is/was contractually mandated, conforms to MB process, and gave the east the same rights they would have under AM 3 and 13.
Click to expand...
but still not usable just like it was not several hours ago. Seeing a pattern yet?
 
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