AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Wow, are you an idiot. Here is how it went down. Nicolau effed up big, pissed off a lot of people. A meeting was held to broker a compromise, done by ALPA. The AWA moron McIlvenna was told to be careful, because if he wasn't, the larger group in the DEMOCRACY had more VOTES, and would pull out of same. The moron didn't listen to common sense and his ALPA lawyer, and the eastern group outvoted the windfallers out of power. The windfall group was VOTED out of power, and a new group went in( sound familiar to something in your history lessons yet?) Then the new group, with more votes, changed bargaining agents, and picked a more representative body for the MAJORITY, and was backed by an AMERICAN COURT called the 9th APPEALS. All legal. Get it yet you idiot.????Take your INTEGRITY crybaby mantra also, and become an AMERICAN, instead of the COMMIE socialist complainer you have become. This is the USA, majority rules, legal is legal, and those who don't subscribe to the AMERICAN WAY, in America, are roadkill. Key words for all who participate- DEMOCRACY, VOTE, MAJORITY, AMERICAN COURTS. Get the common thread yet, or do we have to give you another lesson. There is nothing about reneging, or breaking. It is all about VOTING and DEMOCRACY. If you don't have the votes to win, then don't let it get there. Your SOCIALIST judge WAKE tried to overturn the AMERICAN WAY, but fortunately was stopped in his Commie tracks. What a GREAT country this is!!!!

Hey scab...nevergiveup has some xanax to share with you.


Oh, and I think McIlvenna in his inexperience made only one minor mistake. He should have told Prater to take his Rice committee, mutual solutions, Wye River BS and shove it right from the get go.

But, he did eventually tell Prater to shove it...so I still think J Mac is an outstanding guy.


Oh, one other thing..... you live in a constitutional republic...not a democracy. You work in a closed shop, where the bargaining agent has a DFR towards its membership, not subject to majority rule. And finally..your name's position on the Nic is as good as it get when discussing seniority at LCC.

 

[mrbreeze]

Hey scab...nevergiveup has some xanax to share with you.


Oh, and I think McIlvenna in his inexperience made only one minor mistake. He should have told Prater to take his Rice committee, mutual solutions, Wye River BS and shove it right from the get go.

Ah, yes.....there's that greedy western attitude, alive and well. It's just eating you up, eh nic?

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Everyone out West agrees with you.

Those West guys are smart.

You should listen to them, you might learn something

 

[nevergiveup]

Hey scab...nevergiveup has some xanax to share with you.


Oh, and I think McIlvenna in his inexperience made only one minor mistake. He should have told Prater to take his Rice committee, mutual solutions, Wye River BS and shove it right from the get go.

But, he did eventually tell Prater to shove it...so I still think J Mac is an outstanding guy.


Oh, one other thing..... you live in a constitutional republic...not a democracy. You work in a closed shop, where the bargaining agent has a DFR towards its membership, not subject to majority rule. And finally..your name's position on the Nic is as good as it get when discussing seniority at LCC.

I'm sorry I said you needed Zanax. Don't get so upset at things beyond your control. It's just a job!

 

[cactusboy53]

There is NO ARGUMENT. Majority rules.

I am sure that the kids over at APA will be more than pleased that you think this.

 

[Ames]

What completely infantile BS. Without people willing to take far more radical steps in opposition than what you now, very conveniently I'll ad, see as "not the right thing to do in any society"...this very nation wouldn't ever have been born. A very convenient moral paradigm has been contrived and nurtured out west it seems...and one that clearly requires wholesale ignorance of both all of human history and even human nature it's self.

"In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock."
"A strict observation of the written laws is doubtless one of the high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self preservation, of saving our country when in danger are of higher obligation."
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty....": Thomas Jefferson.

Did you ever actually read any of that kind of stuff in school at all?......EVER?

Ummm...I'm guessing that you guys still won't send me even one of those way-cool-Dude, "Integrity Matters" T-shirts?...Dang it! 😉

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Just like fatherabraham, who likes to twist scripture, we have eastus who likes to twist history.

If you had it your way we would not need to enforce our laws because there would be anarchy every time enforcement was attempted.

Nice try, knucklehead. Not buying your BS. See you on the 26th? I am still ready for your duel challenge.

 

[Ames]

Sigh!.....Umm...I guess no T-shirt for sure then?...sniffle/etc 😉

Still hung up on the t-shirts. Yet he calls us infantile.

 

[Ames]

Wow! Two "minus" votes already? 😉 Sigh!...I guess even Mr. Jefferson's noble ideals can't possibly measure up to the west's notions of moral perfection? Well...on my best day; I couldn't compete with him, so..well...Ok then...I guess I'll just give up on getting any way-cool "Integrity Matters" T-shirts for now. 😉

Wow. Posting and quoting yourself. Then you are disappointed that you get few comments. I guess you think you wrote a masterpiece with that overworded drivel. Like I said, BS to the max. Get over yourself.

 

[Ames]

Silver will drive the point home quite clearly very soon..

Yes she will. Remember to take your meds and stay away from sharp objects.

 

[Ames]

There is NO ARGUMENT. Majority rules.

No, numbnuts. Binding arbitration and the law rules. You'll see.

 

[Ames]

I've read through the DAL/NWA list. The disparity in longevity was limited in most cases to just a few years. That's a fact. So in their case, the arbitration panel was able to focus on other criteria or metrics and of course money provided the salve. So in the case of the new DAL, both seniority and longevity were adequately preserved.

But where the disparity in longevity becomes significant, as in our case, in some instances approaching two decades of more service to company and dues to ALPA - sacrificing one metric at the altar of the other leads to disaster. That too, is a grim fact.

So, you admit there was a disparity in longevity at DAL/NWA. Yet it wasn't considered. Enough said.

"Just a few years" is a disparity - a lifetime to some. Money would not provide a salve. Acceptance of the outcome provides the salve.

 

[nic4us]

Ah, yes.....there's that greedy western attitude, alive and well. It's just eating you up, eh nic?

breeze

I am greedy, how so?

 

[nic4us]

Why are supposedly educated people so clueless about this simple fact? It's not about a number, it's about relative position.

They are not clueless. They know damn good and well how relative seniority works. They deal with it every month when they do their bid.

What they also know is if they can steal your position, their relative seniority increases greatly. There is no fundamental respect for DOH on the east. They want to improve their position by taking yours, and their DOH campaign is nothing more than a rationalization of why they think it is okay to do just that.

How many times must you be told that a new list was devised from merging two, not finding a place to stick the west pilots on the east list.

You gotta make peace with that fact sooner or later.

We can tell them til we are blue in the face...won't change anything, and they will always feel if they don't get to steal your position...then they got screwed. They will never make peace with it. The former US Airways dealt many of them a huge blow to their careers, and that is a shame...but, it is not my fault, and they are not going to take it out on me.

 

[nevergiveup]

They are not clueless. They know damn good and well how relative seniority works. They deal with it every month when they do their bid.

What they also know is if they can steal your position, their relative seniority increases greatly. There is no fundamental respect for DOH on the east. They want to improve their position by taking yours, and their DOH campaign is nothing more than a rationalization of why they think it is okay to do just that.




We can tell them til we are blue in the face...won't change anything, and they will always feel if they don't get to steal your position...then they got screwed. They will never make peace with it. The former US Airways dealt many of them a huge blow to their careers, and that is a shame...but, it is not my fault, and they are not going to take it out on me.

Relative seniority works well with similar aged groups, but not with young ones and old farts like us.

 

[EastUS1]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Just like fatherabraham, who likes to twist scripture, we have eastus who likes to twist history.

If you had it your way we would not need to enforce our laws because there would be anarchy every time enforcement was attempted.

Nice try, knucklehead. Not buying your BS. See you on the 26th? I am still ready for your duel challenge.

Hmmm...It'd be difficult indeed for anyone to feebly contest against the rapier-like, lightning wit evidenced by "Blah, blah, blah, blah" followed by "Nice try, knucklehead" but I suppose the deceny of some reply is still appropriate here. 😉

Let's begin by noting the quotes were directly from Thomas Jefferson. No Supposed "twisting" of his words, much less of "history" it's self, was undertaken in any way. Do be so kind as to demonstrate otherwise....? You seem possessed of some strange notion that the founding fathers (devout revolutionaries that they were), simultaneously were huge supporters of enforcing existent laws. I'd suggest working through that perverse fantasy a bit further.

As for ignorance of history in general...well...you've actually cleared up all possible doubts there: "I am still ready for your duel challenge." I offered no "duel challenge" but no matter. Actual Duels were deadly serious business. "Bring your boxing gloves"...? 😉 It's very unfortunate, imo, that the Code Duello has long since been removed from society, in that it afforded some significant degree of necessary civility....none of which was ever achieved through the laughable notions of such...umm...deadly farce as boxing gloves...which one must assume would be accompanied with the proper "duel" attire of pink tutus and hair bows? 😉

I think it best to leave further debate here on "...who likes to twist history" to the readers.