AUG/SEPT 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[roabilly]

I don't speak for the majority but it's the way I see it at my station. I have talked to others and thier comments are in the same ball park. Your right about the improvement. No, I don't trust the company nor do I wish to be without the union but desire for better representation.

The difference between members that are proactive... and the sniveling apathetic whiners like you... is as stark as night and day!

All you want to do is focus on, and gripe about the Union Leadership. You speak of "your" station as if you were on another planet. If you were a true Trade Unionist, with a real desire to improve things in your station and work-group, you would expend your energies and time attending meetings, getting educated, and volunteering as a steward.

But NO... instead you spend your time and energy here in this forum spouting uneducated bullshit that has absolutely no redeeming qualities or positive implications whatsoever!

How do you think the Union Leadership got started? I know many of them personally, and they all literally "took the bull by the horns" and made the decision to step-up and volunteer their time and energies, get educated, and consequently campaign on their beliefs! Not a single one of them whined.. they actually DID something about their predicament!

You have shown me no credibility or integrity, and as I said before... criticism coming from someone like you has absolutely no merit because you have no MERIT!

Respect is earned... and it takes respect to be heard!

P.S. Are you still on Nelson's Christmas card list?

 

[rockit2]

The difference between members that are proactive... and the sniveling apathetic whiners like you... is as stark as night and day!

All you want to do is focus on, and gripe about the Union Leadership. You speak of "your" station as if you were on another planet. If you were a true Trade Unionist, with a real desire to improve things in your station and work-group, you would expend your energies and time attending meetings, getting educated, and volunteering as a steward.

But NO... instead you spend your time and energy here in this forum spouting uneducated bullshit that has absolutely no redeeming qualities or positive implications whatsoever!

How do you think the Union Leadership got started? I know many of them personally, and they all literally "took the bull by the horns" and made the decision to step-up and volunteer their time and energies, get educated, and consequently campaign on their beliefs! Not a single one of them whined.. they actually DID something about their predicament!

You have shown me no credibility or integrity, and as I said before... criticism coming from someone like you has absolutely no merit because you have no MERIT!

Respect is earned... and it takes respect to be heard!

P.S. Are you still on Nelson's Christmas card list?

No I am not on Nelsons Christmas Card list, Don't know the guy have only heard about him on this forum. Now I see the mentality here, if you don't agree with the ten regular posters then you come under personal attacks which don't bother me at all. What's on your resume Roabilly, other than being the website bully. What position do you hold or have held. The facts are out. Look at the number of votes, out of how many that were eligable in the last district election. Are the dues going to raise again in January? That's the problem, no bang for the buck and a disenchanted work force who are represented by agc's who have a small following of back slappers. It's not only at US but also at the other carriers in the district.

 

[ograc]

I don't speak for the majority but it's the way I see it at my station. I have talked to others and thier comments are in the same ball park. Your right about the improvement. No, I don't trust the company nor do I wish to be without the union but desire for better representation.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. IMO... your opinion is based soley on what you and others observe in your station. If the IAM is falling short of expectations in your station I would suggest it's time to get more actively involved. This goes for the others that you speak of. Improvement and change can only come about with active engagement. Without engagement and involvement your concerns will never be heard. With engagement and involvement you demonstrate, by your actions, that you are dedicated to supporting the union and the overall betterment of the membership. There is certainly room for improvement but without demonstrated committment your opinions will, unfortunately, have little influence brother. If you choose to critisize the IAM and the leadership, please be prepared to offer solutions to the deficiencies. Otherwise your complaints will be viewed as meritless. Just tellin it like it is brother. Get involved!
ograc

 

[IAM Member Here]

Putting a twist on an old saying, Take one step forward, only to take two steps back. With the iam it's Take one step back, then take two more steps back!

Rogue.....

The IAM hasn't done anything. Dues go up, health insurance goes up, and the members are left paying more for being a member in something that has not done anything but driven down wages and contracted out jobs. Quite frankly, Delta ramp no longer has to go 5-10 years of negotiations just to get pay raises due to the labor laws that drag out negotiations for years. Delta is the highest paid ramp and is the only legacy that does its own cargo. The unions agreed to contract out most cargo jobs and not bother fighting for cargo work at the unionized legacies.

And it doesn't look like the Delta ramp misses the IAM because they have chosen not to have another union election.

 

[700UW]

WN rampers are the highest paid, and DL outsourced the majority of their stations and nothing DL offers is guaranteed.

WN (TWU), CO(IBT/IAM), B6( non-union) all make more than DL. Dont let the facts get in your way.

http://www.aanegotia.../JointWages.asp

How can DL miss the IAM when DL ramp was never unionized?

You seem to forget you had three concessionary contracts in two bankruptcy cases, and the fleet members ratified it each time and even threw the small stations under the bus for a pay raise in the transition agreement, you are finally in normal section 6 negotiations which hasnt happened since 1999.

DL in CLT doesnt do its ramp nor cargo, its outsourced, just like the majority of the DL stations.

 

[freedom]

noooooooooooooooooooooooo AA only tops out at 21.49 ? nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! i thought they were way higher .....

well we are going to KEEP their five weeks of vaction .......... you hear me company , it's mine !!!! all mine!!! just as soon as we merge !!!!

 

[IAM Member Here]

WN rampers are the highest paid, and DL outsourced the majority of their stations and nothing DL offers is guaranteed.

WN (TWU), CO(IBT/IAM), B6( non-union) all make more than DL. Dont let the facts get in your way.

http://www.aanegotia.../JointWages.asp

How can DL miss the IAM when DL ramp was never unionized?

You seem to forget you had three concessionary contracts in two bankruptcy cases, and the fleet members ratified it each time and even threw the small stations under the bus for a pay raise in the transition agreement, you are finally in normal section 6 negotiations which hasnt happened since 1999.

DL in CLT doesnt do its ramp nor cargo, its outsourced, just like the majority of the DL stations.

Doesn't Delta have 4 times the amount of stations with actual Delta employees working them, and a few thousand cargo workers? I thought Delta was promised a big pay raise for its January 1, 2013 wage schedule? Rumor has it that it was close to $24 hour. And their dues aren't going up. lol

No wonder why they haven't received enough support for an election. And you seem to forget that bankruptcy was 8 years ago for us yet the IAM and you keep pointing to it as the reason for today's failure. lol And please clear something up for me, wasn't Delta in bankruptcy more recently than we were? Why is the IAM a laggard at UA and US and still blaming bankruptcy when non union workers at Delta were also in bankruptcy and came out much better and kept thousands more jobs?

 

[necigrad]

I thought Delta was non union because they outsource to DGS, a Delta subsidiary.

 

[Kev3188]

Quite frankly, Delta ramp no longer has to go 5-10 years of negotiations just to get pay raises due to the labor laws that drag out negotiations for years. Delta is the highest paid ramp and is the only legacy that does its own cargo.

DL is not the highest paid ramp.

DL does not do it's own cargo system-wide.

As far as increase in healthcare costs, and the other items you mentioned, DL has all of that as well. Not only that, but since there's no negotiated CBA, the company can change any (or all) of that at any time, with no recourse.

Is the pay nice? Yes. Does it offset increases in employee costs? Not always, and let's not forget that there is an entire classification of frontline employees at DL that will *never* progress off the bottom step of the payscale. The company has a stated goal of that group composing 50% of total ramp personnel.

And it doesn't look like the Delta ramp misses the IAM because they have chosen not to have another union election.

"Not yet" would be a more appropriate term.

Several thousand employees would disagree with you.

...and nothing DL offers is guaranteed.

This alone is all anyone needs to keep in mind when considering the merit of going non-union.

FWIW, TOS at DL come Jan. '13 will be $23.17/hr. ($4015.14/mo. divided by 173.3 hours). 10.5 yr scale. The Jan. raise will be ~ 4% for those that are topped out, and 2% for everyone else.

DL in CLT doesnt do its ramp nor cargo, its outsourced, just like the majority of the DL stations.

Exactly. It's also worth noting that DL has ~ 50 total flights daily out of CLT.

Doesn't Delta have 4 times the amount of stations with actual Delta employees working them, and a few thousand cargo workers? I thought Delta was promised a big pay raise for its January 1, 2013 wage schedule? Rumor has it that it was close to $24 hour. And their dues aren't going up. lol

See above. 4x times as many of what kind of DL employees? Compared to who? Dues may not be going up, but other employee-borne costs are.

I thought Delta was non union because they outsource to DGS, a Delta subsidiary.

They do. In fact, in some cities, DGS works right alongside M/L employees.

 

[IAM Member Here]

DL is not the highest paid ramp.

Yeah, ready reserve sucks but it's in our contract also, our management just hasn't taken advantage of it.

But Delta has much more full time employees than we do and has tons more stations and I'm not talking about Delta global. The IAM has been so bad that the Delta employees came out of bankruptcy later than we did and got raises when we didn't. Now they are getting another whopping raise to $24 is what I heard starting on January 1. I make $20.81 and my union rep says bankruptcy is our problem. But bankruptcy was 8 years ago and non union workers like at Delta have moved so much ahead of us now. And it's not like I have more than 4 weeks of vacation or get paid for all my sick days. And even though Delta does contract out some stations, the IAM has contracted out most of ours and our company has the right to contract out more if it so chooses so paying dues to this union is a waste of money and a big pain in the ass.

 

[Kev3188]

Now they are getting another whopping raise to $24 is what I heard starting on January 1.

You clearly did not read what I posted. One more time: what you "heard" is wrong, and 4% is not "whopping" by most rational measures.

If you think being non union is the way to go, by all means apply to DL. I suspect you'll be in for a rude awakening. Good luck.

 

[737823]

DL is not the highest paid ramp.

DL does not do it's own cargo system-wide.

As far as increase in healthcare costs, and the other items you mentioned, DL has all of that as well. Not only that, but since there's no negotiated CBA, the company can change any (or all) of that at any time, with no recourse.

Is the pay nice? Yes. Does it offset increases in employee costs? Not always, and let's not forget that there is an entire classification of frontline employees at DL that will *never* progress off the bottom step of the payscale. The company has a stated goal of that group composing 50% of total ramp personnel.

Kev, then why did the IAM produce this video during the UA FA elections touting that CO FAs were among the highest paid but the UA FAs (AFA) have superior benefits, work rules, protections, etc. Seems inconsistent if people here keep saying all the industry leading benefits and work rules the IAM has championed to then turn around and say they only care about payrates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1sX7ze9IBY

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Money talks. It's also an easy issue for a company (and union) to "message."

 

[737823]

Money talks. It's also an easy issue for a company (and union) to "message."

Isn't that deceptive? As we have talked before, you said that its an easy sell for the company to increase pay rates but more than off set the increase with high premiums and reductions in benefits. Did you watch the video in its entirety? Seems the IAM is trying to sell the higher pay but the truth is they don't have the same benefits and protections, which the FAs in the video said (their words).

Josh

 

[ograc]

I think it's important to remember predominantly non union Fleet carriers, such as DL and the former CO, follow a particular strategy. That strategy is offer competitive wages or a little more in an effort to keep unions off their property. This strategy has effectively worked because the masses don't see past hourly wage. An employee's compensation package includes much more than this but many are too shallow to see. Subsequently, they buy right into the company's strategy. Being non union in this industry affords you competitive wages thanks to the union represented jobs. It affords you nothing other than this. In the end, you are an employee at will, and subject to conceding whatever the company decides to take. Including your job!
ograc