US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Typical west ploy, Take all 16 years. I'm a bottom f/o now and I make more than any west f/o today, and they are senior to me.

I would say typical east behavior. Make a statement then change the rules after you are proven wrong.

"AWE Dog"

Take the W2's from a 17 years east guy and your 16 year wonderboy and compare them. I think the east guy was making more money as a f/o than your almighty captain. So why is your west captain so deserving? Is it because he checked out and made less money than a east widebody f/o that got furloughed?

Your statement was “take the W-2’s“. Are your W-2’s different than my W-2’s? My W-2’s tells me what I made for one year. Do you get a cumulative one? Would you care to look back 5 years and compare? Total those up perhaps? I took you at your word and compared what a 17 year WB east f/o made and a 16 year west captain. You did not say ALL 16 years you said a single year.

Funny how now you run back to the trump W-2 method of integration. That DOH gold standard is looking mighty shaky.


With a difference between $109 and $145 there is no way an east fo is making more than a west captain. Even in the face of hard evidence you blame someone else. How about just admitting that you have your facts wrong?

BTW what kind of messed up seniority system do you have over there? Just how special are those WB F/O spots.
“east widebody f/o that got furloughedâ€

Just how junior does the premier flying go? The 737 F/O were senior to WB F/O’s? Or were you again just making stuff up?

 

[Black Swan]

Prove it. You can't. Therefore you are just spewing hatred and malicious lies. Thankfully there are only a handful of people that give what you think any credibility.

And Metro, I thank you sincerely for being one of the handful!

 

[cleardirect]

GF- I live in PHL. Believe me, NOBODY drives to Dulles or JFK to fly. The only one I hear anyone doing is Newark, and only if it is really a deal. If anyone would be stupid enough to dump PHL, they would be making a huge financial blunder. There are a lot of companies here. Believe me, Dulles is not right down the road, that is a 3+45 drive or more with traffic.

How many flights a day did PIT have before the merger? How many flights a day do they have now? Was PIT not one of the east’s big deal hubs? Did some other airline come charging in there to pick up all of the traffic?

I don’t think so. PHL could go away as a hub in the airline system and no one would miss it. A few more RJ’s to IAD and it’s a done deal.

How long was BOS an east hub? Anyone think that the airline could get along without it?

Don’t get to locked into believe your own press.

 

[Black Swan]

I would say typical east behavior. Make a statement then change the rules after you are proven wrong.

"AWE Dog"



Your statement was “take the W-2’s“. Are your W-2’s different than my W-2’s? My W-2’s tells me what I made for one year. Do you get a cumulative one? Would you care to look back 5 years and compare? Total those up perhaps? I took you at your word and compared what a 17 year WB east f/o made and a 16 year west captain. You did not say ALL 16 years you said a single year.

Funny how now you run back to the trump W-2 method of integration. That DOH gold standard is looking mighty shaky.


With a difference between $109 and $145 there is no way an east fo is making more than a west captain. Even in the face of hard evidence you blame someone else. How about just admitting that you have your facts wrong?

BTW what kind of messed up seniority system do you have over there? Just how special are those WB F/O spots.
“east widebody f/o that got furloughedâ€

Just how junior does the premier flying go? The 737 F/O were senior to WB F/O’s? Or were you again just making stuff up?

He said he is a junior F/O and he makes more than any of your F/O's. He isn't lying, he is a 76I F/O and he makes more than your F/O's. What is up with all the other screed you were flinging? You missed the entire point. Have a great night Mythbuster

 

[Black Swan]

How many flights a day did PIT have before the merger? How many flights a day do they have now? Was PIT not one of the east’s big deal hubs? Did some other airline come charging in there to pick up all of the traffic?

I don’t think so. PHL could go away as a hub in the airline system and no one would miss it. A few more RJ’s to IAD and it’s a done deal.

How long was BOS an east hub? Anyone think that the airline could get along without it?

Don’t get to locked into believe your own press.

You know what Mythbuster? I don't really know. Why don't you tell us how many flights PIT had,OK. I am saying I live in this great city, and we have a lot more going on traffic wise than you think. We have a pretty decent economy with a lot of pharma. We don't have any of that sub-prime thing you guys have dragging things down. I am saying if somebody gives PHL away, it will get the attention it deserves and merits. If this place doesn't work it, SWA will, and another big carrier will take the Int'l. You have a great night.

 

[cleardirect]

He said he is a junior F/O and he makes more than any of your F/O's. He isn't lying, he is a 76I F/O and he makes more than your F/O's. What is up with all the other screed you were flinging? You missed the entire point. Have a great night Mythbuster

This is what he said originally. That east F/O's made more than west captains. That was the point.

Take the W2's from a 17 years east guy and your 16 year wonderboy and compare them. I think the east guy was making more money as a f/o than your almighty captain. So why is your west captain so deserving? Is it because he checked out and made less money than a east widebody f/o that got furloughed?

I see that that part got left out of your quote.

 

[Pacemaker]

GF- I live in PHL. Believe me, NOBODY drives to Dulles or JFK to fly. The only one I hear anyone doing is Newark, and only if it is really a deal. If anyone would be stupid enough to dump PHL, they would be making a huge financial blunder. There are a lot of companies here. Believe me, Dulles is not right down the road, that is a 3+45 drive or more with traffic.

I would tend to agree....PHL isn't a "mega-hub" along the lines of DFW or ORD but certianly has enough O & D to be a viable second-tier hub. I think PHL would be part of any fragmentation scenario you could imagine. It, along with the DCA slots/gates, is the one part of US Airways that is probably coveted by anyone contemplating some kind of transaction.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I wouldn't count on PHL being untouched in a merger with any other legacy - it may be the be all and end all for little US as the only hub in a city with significant higher revenue O&D traffic, but compare it to NYC or Washington and it just doesn't make sense. I'd invite anyone to name a legacy carrier with major hubs 135 miles or less apart. And anyone who thinks that NYC or Washington would be given up in exchange for PHL, well, I've got some swamp land I'd love to sell.

If anything CLT is safer than PHL - only DL has a southeastern hub suitable for east coast connections and I don't think they'll be looking to merge with US any time soon.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

I wouldn't count on PHL being untouched in a merger with any other legacy - it may be the be all and end all for little US as the only hub in a city with significant higher revenue O&D traffic, but compare it to NYC or Washington and it just doesn't make sense. I'd invite anyone to name a legacy carrier with major hubs 135 miles or less apart. And anyone who thinks that NYC or Washington would be given up in exchange for PHL, well, I've got some swamp land I'd love to sell.

If anything CLT is safer than PHL - only DL has a southeastern hub suitable for east coast connections and I don't think they'll be looking to merge with US any time soon.

Jim

I don' t see anyone giving up any of those hubs for PHL. But it presents a big dilemma because PHL can easily stand alone with a large domestic and Int'l presence. It would possibly be traded to someone who could use it. USAir faced the same dilemma with BWI PHL and they both are doing fine on their own. The population base in all these areas is huge, and people can choose to drive from BWI to Phl or vice versa for the right price if they are fairly close. It would make sense for an acquiring entity to try to run both, say JFK and PHL if they owned both and were allowed. There is enough space between and population to make it work. Somebody needs to reject the notion it is too close and make it work. It works now. Why would it not with the paint job being changed?

 

[BoeingBoy]

PHL can easily stand alone with a large domestic and Int'l presence.

Large to US, absolutely. Large compared to NYC, Washington, Chicago, etc - not so much.

It would possibly be traded to someone who could use it.

What's to trade? US owns nothing but the ground equipment and office supplies. Who could use it? As I said, all the legacies already have hubs nearby.

USAir faced the same dilemma with BWI PHL and they both are doing fine on their own.

And US didn't trade with WN to achieve that result. US gave up the BWI hub, just as any legacy that bought US would give up the PHL hub.

It works now. Why would it not with the paint job being changed?

Because the airline with the original of the new paint job would gain little or nothing from it. The oh so valuable PHL traffic could be added to one of the other legacies hubs with a dozen of so connecting flights a day - why take on the US headache to get it. After all, without connecting traffic PHL wouldn't be making money for US and that connecting traffic could be easily routed over another legacy's nearby hub.

Even Parker is realizing that US has little to offer to a potential merger partner. That is true for CLT except for one thing - as I said before, no other legacy has a southeast hub except DL, so CLT has that going for it as a turnkey operation. Likewise the Shuttle, which I neglected to mention, might be valuable to any legacy carrier other than DL (although it's value isn't as great as it once was).

Jim

 

[veritasaequitas]

Your statement was “take the W-2’s“. Are your W-2’s different than my W-2’s? My W-2’s tells me what I made for one year. Do you get a cumulative one? Would you care to look back 5 years and compare?

Just how junior does the premier flying go? The 737 F/O were senior to WB F/O’s? Or were you again just making stuff up?

Why don't we look back 15 years or 10 or 5.
MIT pilot wage study.

How much does your 757 captains and fo's make compared to your 737 pilots?

 

[luvn737s]

2007 Largest American Cities by population

Phoenix #5
Philadelphia #6
Charlotte #19

Which would you pick for a hub? Plus you have ATC congestion at PHL that cannot be overcome without major reductions in WAS or NYC.

Plus PHX has yet to be closed for 36 hours because of 14" of snow.

I am confident that the limitations to rerouting passengers during the Philly Whiteout due to the segregation of crews was not overlooked by Parker and Co. This could be the impetus to pushing for consolidation.

 

[goneflyin]

GF- I live in PHL. Believe me, NOBODY drives to Dulles or JFK to fly. The only one I hear anyone doing is Newark, and only if it is really a deal. If anyone would be stupid enough to dump PHL, they would be making a huge financial blunder. There are a lot of companies here. Believe me, Dulles is not right down the road, that is a 3+45 drive or more with traffic.

Swan, you're missing my point. I'm not saying that PHL isn't a viable hub. Philadelphia is a big city, and has plenty of O & D traffic-- one of the key elements in determining a hub's viability.

What I'm saying is that every major airline already has a hub in the vicinity of PHL, and it would be a redundancy to have a second hub so close to an existing one. Any airline with hubs so close together is greatly increasing their cost structure, but only marginally increasing revenue. One hub would cannibalize business from the other hub.

If USAirways ceases to have a hub there, I would expect to see Southwest to increase their presence, or possibly an airline like Airtran to start a small hub operation.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why don't we look back 15 years or 10 or 5.

What the heck does that have to do with seniority integration? Sounds like a "My watch used to be bigger than your watch is so I deserve whatever I want" argument to me.

Next, if you look at that chart it shows the West pilots bringing up the average for all US pilots after the merger - the East pilots certainly didn't get higher pay rates under LOA 93.

And if you're going to link to something, at least get the title right - it's a chart from MIT's Airline Data Project, not a MIT pilot wage study.

Jim

 

[HPearlyretiree]

2007 Largest American Cities by population

Phoenix #5
Philadelphia #6
Charlotte #19

Which would you pick for a hub? Plus you have ATC congestion at PHL that cannot be overcome without major reductions in WAS or NYC.

Plus PHX has yet to be closed for 36 hours because of 14" of snow.

I am confident that the limitations to rerouting passengers during the Philly Whiteout due to the segregation of crews was not overlooked by Parker and Co. This could be the impetus to pushing for consolidation.

You know that the boys in filthydelphia think we are all cowboys and live in squalor.

Of course PHX would be nicer without all the east coast trash that move here and try to make it like the rusted out holes that they came from.