August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

Yes keeping your contract. Like the T/A that states the result of arbitration will be used even if you don't like the deal.

You easties were aware of the consequences of arbitration. Oh wait, no you were not. Because your MEC was telling you glorious tales that you were winning. That DOH was the gold standard and no other result was possible. Live up to your deal.

The T/A was never completed, a fact you guys ALWAYS leave out. You wanted the parts you liked without completing the deal.

Integrity.

 

[EastUS1]

"If they were smart" That leave out you easties.

Umm...Perhaps "you'se" meant "leaves" out..? 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Silly west pilots. Relying on our union to tell us the truth.

Are you now suggesting that even your west representatives lied to you?

"Silly west pilots." No possible argument there. 🙂

 

[Pi brat]

Are you now suggesting that even your west representatives lied to you? 🙂

Or Ken and Rocky, the west pilots who helped write the MOU? And Ken is a key player in AOL, not that he would be influenced by that. I wonder if he will be called to testify?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So whatever the majority of APA pilots wants is fine with you? They can do whatever type seniority list the majority wants because that is the norm?

We can avoid M/B because the seventh circuit controls? That you don't really need a fair and neutral process but the majority can dictate to the minority what seniority will be? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Your precious ALPA changed their "MERGER POLICY" how many times because the "majority wanted it that way, "say it is not so'! MM!

 

[EastUS1]

cleardirect: Silly west pilots. Relying on our union to tell us the truth.

Or Ken and Rocky, the west pilots who helped write the MOU? And Ken is a key player in AOL, not that he would be influenced by that......

Indeed. One just couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[Phoenix]

How about this LEGAL RESPONSE:

"A rational person could conclude that dovetailing seniority lists in a merger, treating service at either firm as of equal weight, without quotas or other preferences for either group of employees, serves the interests of labor as a whole. Seniority lists sometimes are endtailed. That is, the employees of the smaller firm are given seniority only from the date of the acquisition, effectively added at the end of the larger firm's seniority roster. Contentions that endtailing violates the union's duty have been unsuccessful. Frandsen v. Railway Clerks, 782 F.2d 674 (7th Cir.1986); Schick v. NLRB, 409 F.2d 395 (7th Cir.1969). The propriety of dovetailing, treating the two groups identically, follows directly. If the union's leaders took account of the fact that the workers at the larger firm preferred this outcome, so what? Majority rule is the norm. Equal treatment does not become forbidden because the majority prefers equality, even if formal equality bears more harshly on the minority. Cf. Employment Division v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872, 110 S.Ct. 1595, 108 L.Ed.2d 876 (1990). These principles dispose of the Ozark-TWA case."

Has anyone else noticed you are citing settled cases, published judgements, actual binding precedents.... And the West is posting the pleadings of their lawyer.

 

[EastUS1]

Only rarely do I need to order and burn extra fuel, as these pilots who claim to be “professionals” have routinely done.

Eric Auxier
"It's surprisingly true. Of course the computers calculate just how much is cost-effective. But as a pilot, I love to tanker...never can have enough fuel!"

"Without explanation or notice, USAPA broke from its usual standard practice and
tracked the MOU ratification vote by domicile—a procedure that distinguishes West Pilot
votes. Had USAPA disclosed that it would do so prior to the vote, and had it disclosed
that it would use the results of the vote in an effort to deny class certification, those
results would surely have been quite different."

Had USAPA disclosed that it would do so prior to the vote,.....those results would surely have been quite different."? Umm....Let me get this straight here: So...the west would NOT have overwhelmingly voted in favor of the agreement if it could predictably be shown that they did!? Seriously? WOW! Words just fail me there. 🙂

Oh well. Just more shining examples of "Spartan" and "knightly"...err..."Integrity" and..umm..."logic" in a properly termed NUT-shell for all to see. 🙂

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Has anyone else noticed you are citing settled cases, published judgements, actual binding precedents.... And the West is posting the pleadings of their lawyer.

As RR points out 'local politics, or Marty" is the law on" GILLIGANOIDAS ISLAND"

 

[Pi brat]

Simple question cleardirect.

 

[cleardirect]

Ok clear, let's talk about fraud. Wasn't it the AOL plan all along to have it's members vote for the MOU, knowing that it didn't include the Nic, then to file suit that it was illegal, get an injunction and then when the APA took over they would drop the appeal? Just tell the truth.

The " plan" all along has been to defend the west rights and force you easties to live up to your agreements.

 

[Pi brat]

The " plan" all along has been to defend the west rights and force you easties to live up to your agreements.

Answer the question.

 

[cleardirect]

The T/A was never completed, a fact you guys ALWAYS leave out. You wanted the parts you liked without completing the deal.

Integrity.

The deal was that the union either ALPA or usapa get a contract. The fact that usapa failed at that basic duty seems to escape you. The arbitration was completed.

 

[cleardirect]

Your precious ALPA changed their "MERGER POLICY" how many times because the "majority wanted it that way, "say it is not so'! MM!

Exactly how many time over the last 30 years has ALPA "changed" their policy?

While you like to point to the fact that ALPA added in no particular order length of service. You try and ignore that ALPA also changed the policy to include getting a ratified contract BEFORE seniority. That little item was aimed directly at you eastie so that no other group pulls a scum bag move like you guys did.

But to your point. Are you OK with the American pilots being the majority deciding what the seniority list should be with a fair and neutral process just because they are the majority?

 

[cleardirect]

Answer the question.

Live up to your agreement.