August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

The east threw a tantrum, ...

Show us all anywhere that any supposed "tantrum" was EVER elevated to such fine, on-video gems as: "..And we hate you guys!", or the classic: "You know why I hate you guys!?..I hate all of youse!" We naturally all "know" that none of the feces mailing and phone line jamming ever happened....riiiiight? 😉 Perhaps some brief refresher regarding the upstanding, elegant and wholly "mature" conduct of your fine little "army" of..umm... "spartans" is in order here? 🙂

 

[Metroyet]

Q - Can East & West pilots bid positions on the other side during the period between the POR & JCBA?

A - No, the Status quo continues.

Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?

A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.

Q - How will the jump seat work?

A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.

Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?

A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.

Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.

A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.

*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.

Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.

A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.





h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.

This is from the APA. They don't have a new JCBA which is what they are referencing here. YOU DO. Read the damn title of the document you signed. If you haven't learned to read something before you sign it by now then there's not much I can tell you.

The UCC says you have a CBA
LCC says you have a CBA
APA says you have a CBA
Judge Lane says you have a CBA
AMR says you have a CBA
AOL says you have a CBA

AS per normal, it's USTUPID alone on an island of understanding.

 

[traderjake]

You wouldn't get quite the windfall that Fergi would, but it was a windfall.

No windfall in the opinion of the neutral, professionally trained arbitors of the four pilot seniority arbitrations.

 

[EastUS1]

No windfall in the opinion of the neutral, professionally trained arbitors of the four pilot seniority arbitrations.

There might not be in the opinion of some professionally trained acrobats, a randomly selected cage of chimpanzees, a given colony of sea sponges, or even just an open Petri dish either, but ANYONE who can actually assert, with a straight face, that placing some newly hired employee ahead of others in the same class and craft, with as much as 17 more years worked, doesn't constitute a gross injustice needs their head examined....Period.

 

[traderjake]

There might not be in the opinion of some professionally trained acrobats, a randomly selected cage of chimpanzees, or a given colony of sea sponges either, but ANYONE who can actually assert, with a straight face, that placing some newly hired employee ahead of others with as much as 17 years worked needs their head examined....period.

You never seem to get tired of embarrassing yourself.

 

[Metroyet]

There might not be in the opinion of some professionally trained acrobats, a randomly selected cage of chimpanzees, or a given colony of sea sponges either, but ANYONE who can actually assert, with a straight face, that placing some newly hired employee ahead of others with as much as 17 years worked doens't constitute a gross injustice needs their head examined....Period.

Maybe the thrice furloughed pilot on the last position of a seniority list after 17 years should have their head examined for staying.

Just my opinion of course. I know you just want to shove the bill over to someone else for them to pay for your mistakes but that plan is clearly hit a few snags. You should have listened to Garland Jones. He's has been proven 100% correct in his predictions 6 years ago.

 

[EastUS1]

Just my opinion of course.

Previously addressed: "...a given colony of sea sponges, or even just an open Petri dish....," 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

You never seem to get tired of embarrassing yourself.

Your crowd's not of the the sort who's opinions I value. 😉 Give my best to Chip...and don't forget to remind him of that marvelous set of crocodile tears he shed so dramatically, long ago, whilst muttering "Armageddon!...Armageddon!". You guys are a truly "impressive" and interesting bunch...Well...at least from a clinical perspective.

 

[Phoenix]

This is from the APA. They don't have a new JCBA which is what they are referencing here. YOU DO. Read the damn title of the document you signed. If you haven't learned to read something before you sign it by now then there's not much I can tell you.

The UCC says you have a CBA
LCC says you have a CBA
APA says you have a CBA
Judge Lane says you have a CBA
AMR says you have a CBA
AOL says you have a CBA

AS per normal, it's USTUPID alone on an island of understanding.

This Memorandum provides a process for reaching:
(a) a Merger Transition Agreement (the “MTA&rdquo😉 between APA and an entity (“New American
Airlines&rdquo😉 formed in connection with a plan of reorganization (“POR&rdquo😉 for such of those AMR
Corporation-related debtors required to effectuate a combination of American and US Airways
(the "Merger"). The MTA shall consist of the collective bargaining agreement between
American and APA approved on December 19, 2012 by the Bankruptcy Court in In Re AMR
Corporation, et al., jointly administered Ch. 11 Case No. 11-15463 (SHL) (the “2012 CBA&rdquo😉, as
amended pursuant to the provisions of this Memorandum;
( b ) a Joint CBA (the "JCBA") to apply to a merged workforce composed of pilots employed by
American and US Airways.



P.S. Don't forget to read my tag line..
I I I I I
I I I I I
I I I I I
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/

 

[Walmartgreeter]

WOW. Come on baby, let's do the twist!

This little circular agrument will be ended. Either by the courts or by Parker (if he runs out of time and options). I sure am sorry to be such a bother to you as I try to protect my rights (while funding the attorneys pitted against me and my pilot group). Maybe you'll get it some day.....but I seriously doubt it.

To my knowledge, you have never answered my question: If in the next merger process you (with 17 years) are put behind a new hire, would you simply accept the result or fight it? This is a simple yes or no question. And again, would you just turn to your family and say too bad, we just have to suck it up?

And why is your opinion protected by a "right" and mine (according to some) only due to a lack of integrity?

Must be a slow meeting, since you have time to post here and do the business of the BPR. Unless you gave a proxy.

Greeter

 

[EastUS1]

To my knowledge, you have never answered my question: If in the next merger process you (with 17 years) are put behind a new hire, would you simply accept the result or fight it? This is a simple yes or no question.

A direct question requiring an equally direct answer? Good luck with ever seeing that responded to in kind. 😉

 

[Phoenix]

To my knowledge, you have never answered my question: If in the next merger process you (with 17 years) are put behind a new hire, would you simply accept the result or fight it? This is a simple yes or no question. And again, would you just turn to your family and say too bad, we just have to suck it up?

And why is your opinion protected by a "right" and mine (according to some) only due to a lack of integrity?

Must be a slow meeting, since you have time to post here and do the business of the BPR. Unless you gave a proxy.

Greeter

That is just a rhetorical question and needs no answer. But it always worth a recycle or two, ya know, when integrity is stake, and szheet. 🙂

 

[Pi brat]

I think PI would freely admit that it his opinion.

Absolutely. As a matter of fact, saying IMHO is redundant on a web board, just like it was for Judge Silver to say "....if backed with a legitimate union purpose." It's more important to claim when something is a fact.

Also the ALPA merger policy didn't say "Thou shalt not have any windfalls." It said that they should be avoided, and added AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. That's what gets me. This is clearly a windfall at the expense of others. There have been some west pilots that admitted it was a windfall, but stated that it was arrived at by a process and they can't change it. That I respect.

On the revised Nic award that a west pilot produced in '11, old Dave had a 13% jump in relative position on the Nic vs. west stand alone. A 13% jump on a much larger list, with much greater bidding opportunities. Of course that came from the east guys that were placed below him. How could I think that's a windfall? Silly me!

 

[mrbreeze]

No windfall in the opinion of the neutral, professionally trained arbitors of the four pilot seniority arbitrations.

 

[Pi brat]

No windfall in the opinion of the neutral, professionally trained arbitors of the four pilot seniority arbitrations.

We had four arbitrators on our arbitration? Remember, Nicolau said that every merger turned on it's own facts, so a method used in another merger could produce a fair outcome there and not here.

I respect your opinion about the process even if I disagree. I just can't see how you can say it wasn't a windfall.