What's new

August 2013 Pilot Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry. You've posed a scenario that rehashes what we all agreed to. Life is not fair. Your word is your word. Done.

Oh the integrity is astounding. I can't believe the pilots of PHX would elect someone like you.

I hope you can at least be honest with yourself. You would have done the same thing. It's a simple risk/reward issue.

Funny that you say "Your word is your word." YOU GUYS voted 97% for the MOU then went and filed a lawsuit saying that it is illegal.

You are right, done.
 
LS laid it our for you guys yesterday and was given a hard time. Nothing new there, his own guys have done it to him before. You guys know that given the right circumstance you would have used your veto power.
 
Simple, I agree, but why didn't the east chose the simple route of voting no rather than forming USAPA and ending up in federal court more times than I can recall at this point.

Let's turn the table on this. If the NIC stapled the west resulting in massive downgrades or furloughs for the west and they naturally voted no to avoid that result because duel ratification, what would do you think the east would have offered outside of the SLI to help the west find enough good in the TA/JCBA to get it to pass?

You would have to ask each individual east pilot why they voted they way the did. One big reason I was given for voting for USAPA was that they had no faith that ALPA would let the TA play out, that they would put the east MEC in trusteeship and ram something down our throats. When they did that to PHL it pretty much sealed the deal.

I have no idea what the east would have done if the situation was reversed. They may have been as stupid as the west.
 
Sorry for the delay. I do have other things to do sometimes:

Q: Why are USAPA-represented pilots being given a copy of the MOU and a vote to ratify?
A: To be clear, the USAPA BPR has reviewed the MOU, but the USAPA pilots, like the APA pilots, have not and cannot review the MOU until USAPA and APA are granted relief from certain provisions of the NDA.
The MOU will act as a brand-new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) for the USAPA pilots, which is why they will have an opportunity to vote on it. However, for APA-represented pilots, the MOU only amends the new CBA, as opposed to creating a whole new agreement.

The Companies and the APA made this clear BEFORE you guys ratified your new CBA and removed the ripeness issue. You took the money and accepted the Nic...just like I always thought you would.

You quoted a Q&A from somewhere undocumented. Where did it come from?Provide the page and line in the MOU which states the MOU is a JCBA. Did the Q&A come from a Marty meet and greet?
 
Sorry for the delay. I do have other things to do sometimes:

Q: Why are USAPA-represented pilots being given a copy of the MOU and a vote to ratify?
A: To be clear, the USAPA BPR has reviewed the MOU, but the USAPA pilots, like the APA pilots, have not and cannot review the MOU until USAPA and APA are granted relief from certain provisions of the NDA.
The MOU will act as a brand-new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) for the USAPA pilots, which is why they will have an opportunity to vote on it. However, for APA-represented pilots, the MOU only amends the new CBA, as opposed to creating a whole new agreement.

The Companies and the APA made this clear BEFORE you guys ratified your new CBA and removed the ripeness issue. You took the money and accepted the Nic...just like I always thought you would.


Q - Can East & West pilots bid positions on the other side during the period between the POR & JCBA?

A - No, the Status quo continues.

Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?

A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.

Q - How will the jump seat work?

A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.

Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?

A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.

Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.

A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.

*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.

Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.

A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.





h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
 
Oh the integrity is astounding. I can't believe the pilots of PHX would elect someone like you.

I hope you can at least be honest with yourself. You would have done the same thing. It's a simple risk/reward issue.

Funny that you say "Your word is your word." YOU GUYS voted 97% for the MOU then went and filed a lawsuit saying that it is illegal.

You are right, done.

WOW. Come on baby, let's do the twist!

This little circular agrument will be ended. Either by the courts or by Parker (if he runs out of time and options). I sure am sorry to be such a bother to you as I try to protect my rights (while funding the attorneys pitted against me and my pilot group). Maybe you'll get it some day.....but I seriously doubt it.
 
WOW. Come on baby, let's do the twist!

This little circular agrument will be ended. Either by the courts or by Parker (if he runs out of time and options). I sure am sorry to be such a bother to you as I try to protect my rights (while funding the attorneys pitted against me and my pilot group). Maybe you'll get it some day.....but I seriously doubt it.

Take the Nic windfall blinders off.

I have no problem with you guys defending yourself. But, you fail to remember that the TA was a document that we all agreed to first. It allowed the events that have happened to happen. YOU want to bend the truth about the MOU. Your groups unripe lawsuit has kept us in court since 2008.
 
... I sure am sorry to be such a bother to you as I try to protect my rights (while funding the attorneys pitted against me and my pilot group). Maybe you'll get it some day.....but I seriously doubt it.

You are doing everything you can to protect what you think is right. And in your mind you are doing everything right. We get that and no body objects to that. We are big enough to ascribe to you the fact that you really do think your opinion is right. You believe you are doing what is right... who am I to judge if your intentions are not as pure as what you say?

In the end everyone gets exactly what they deserve so there is no personal loss in ascribing integrity and best intentions to your opponent, even if in the end you were wrong about ascribing good intentions to their motives.
 
Take the Nic windfall blinders off.

I have no problem with you guys defending yourself. But, you fail to remember that the TA was a document that we all agreed to first. It allowed the events that have happened to happen. YOU want to bend the truth about the MOU. Your groups unripe lawsuit has kept us in court since 2008.

Haven't you heard? The Nicolau is a final & binding award as determined by a neutral arbitrator. If you took the time to read the document you will in fact see that senior arbitrator Nicolau infers that there is no windfall. According to those involved & industry experts, the process was determined to be within the confines of the merger process (that ALL parties agreed to).

Unripe? Who says it's unripe (besides USAPA)? Who says it's ripe? EVERYONE, but USAPA. We'll see what the judge says. Rage against the machine, my friend.
 
You would have to ask each individual east pilot why they voted they way the did. One big reason I was given for voting for USAPA was that they had no faith that ALPA would let the TA play out, that they would put the east MEC in trusteeship and ram something down our throats. When they did that to PHL it pretty much sealed the deal.

I have no idea what the east would have done if the situation was reversed. They may have been as stupid as the west.

Here were two East pilots voting in favor of ALPA. Whether it was ALPA or USAPA, evasion of arbitration was the goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbRXUIM7kQc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6TwophNpks
 
Not to forget Don

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=eKib-3eGmCE&NR=1
 
4. It is the intent of the Parties that, as of the Effective Date, the terms and conditions of employment
for pilots employed by New American Airlines and US Airways will be set by the MTA... it shall fully
displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots
and any status quo arising thereunder.
 
Haven't you heard? The Nicolau is a final & binding award as determined by a neutral arbitrator. If you took the time to read the document you will in fact see that senior arbitrator Nicolau infers that there is no windfall. According to those involved & industry experts, the process was determined to be within the confines of the merger process (that ALL parties agreed to).

Unripe? Who says it's unripe (besides USAPA)? Who says it's ripe? EVERYONE, but USAPA. We'll see what the judge says. Rage against the machine, my friend.

Judge Wake finally was forced to see that Addington I wasn't ripe. Dismissed. Didn't you hear. The only ruling we have from Judge Silver yet was in USAPA's favor, or did I miss her ruling in the current(3rd!) suit over this?

Slavery was once legal and considered just in this country. Nicolau saying there was no windfall(not sure he actually did) doesn't make it so. Let's have a test. You were hired in your late 40s in 2000 at AWA, right? What was the best relative position you would have achieved on a west stand alone list? How about on the Nicolau award.

You wouldn't get quite the windfall that Fergi would, but it was a windfall.
 
IN YOUR OPINION. That's all.
I think PI would freely admit that it his opinion. That is the whole point. The whole windfall thing either way is an opinion and that is all it is, but it is the basis for each person feeling justified in what they are doing... ya know, like feeling they have integrity.

Do you allow folks to have an opinion? :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top